charlie1223 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 See my earlier post: If a H.S. band fielded a summer touring band with woodwinds, and invited exchange students from all over the world to be a part, and they performed one show for 11 1/2 minutes, and was judged differently than their fall BOA competitions, and they allowed musicians from anywhere to try out (especially woodwind and synth players ... Would it be a band or a drum corps? So your asking that if we had a current drum corps with woodwinds would it still be a drum corps. That's what your asking. The answer is that no it would not be a "drum corps". But that wouldn't change all of the other elements of the organization that make it unique that go beyond just the instrumentation. That's what I'm arguing. That what makes drum corps unique is not solely categorized by its definition. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Instrumentation defines what a drum corps is but I feel that it is only a part of what makes drum corps unique and stand out among other marching organizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 That may have been the first marching band performance during a football game but that is not the first marching band. Drum Corps existed before marching bands and it makes sense that because of military drum corps we have high-school and college marching bands. You want to retract or restate this now, don't you? Okay... But I think that if drum and brass ensemble didn't march, then to me it isn't a drum corps. So if a drum corps does a performance on a stage in a gym are they then a wind ensemble with percussion? (yes, now I'm getting picky and poking fun, Charlie. All in good debate fun. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 So your asking that if we had a current drum corps with woodwinds would it still be a drum corps. That's what your asking. The answer is that no it would not be a "drum corps". But that wouldn't change all of the other elements of the organization that make it unique that go beyond just the instrumentation. That's what I'm arguing. That what makes drum corps unique is not solely categorized by its definition. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Instrumentation defines what a drum corps is but I feel that it is only a part of what makes drum corps unique and stand out among other marching organizations. When your left describing what drum corps is you have to put in the caveat that says "...but it's a million times better than marching band... major leagues of marching band..." I mean, that's what I do, because for me, just saying that drum corps is marching band without woodwinds doesn't do the activity justice... its a poor definition imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 So your asking that if we had a current drum corps with woodwinds would it still be a drum corps. That's what your asking. The answer is that no it would not be a "drum corps". But that wouldn't change all of the other elements of the organization that make it unique that go beyond just the instrumentation. That's what I'm arguing. That what makes drum corps unique is not solely categorized by its definition. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Instrumentation defines what a drum corps is but I feel that it is only a part of what makes drum corps unique and stand out among other marching organizations. I realize this is what you're trying to establish. I've been hammering you hard (and you've been taking it quite well, my friend) because if woodwinds are allowed drum corps will morph, finally, into nothing more than summer marching band. Just like those circuits up north that compete in the summer. They are still marching bands. And the "experience" won't be what you profess, IMO. How many marching members will be willing to pay thousands to do what they do in the fall, when the only difference is that they get to shower and sleep together? How many parents will get the point and pay for the kid to march if the parents see it as a summer version of what they pay taxes to allow the kids to do in the fall? The project Persona study shows clearly that CMM do NOT want drum corps to be like band. Morphing closer to "band style", even if they shower and sleep together, will not draw more (or IMO as many) students interested in summer marching band. The most singular difference between the two is instrumentation, while I grant that sleeping/showering/touring are differences as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 You want to retract or restate this now, don't you? So if a drum corps does a performance on a stage in a gym are they then a wind ensemble with percussion? (yes, now I'm getting picky and poking fun, Charlie. All in good debate fun. ) In actuality when I'm watching drum corps on my computer, I'm actually just watching a series of pixels changing in a uniform pattern that my brain compiles as recognizable images. Am I really looking at a drum corps? Is a drum corps then just a series of pixels that I associate to be a drum corps in my mind!? I can haz grum kor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) When your left describing what drum corps is you have to put in the caveat that says "...but it's a million times better than marching band... major leagues of marching band..." I mean, that's what I do, because for me, just saying that drum corps is marching band without woodwinds doesn't do the activity justice... its a poor definition imo. How to describe it is a question that DCI has been fiddling with for decades. I contend that they've allowed (and pushed) the activity to look so much like band that it's become harder and harder to describe. Why wasn't it so hard to describe 30 years ago? The same dynamics existed, except corps didn't look so much like band. And people seemed to know the difference. I contend it's gotten harder to describe because it's become so similar to band. What if DCI simply made it's marketing focus "Drum and Bugle Corps"? If they'd push to (re-)educate people on the activity it wouldn't be so hard to get the recognition we so dearly need. Instead, IMO, they're taking the easy way out by pandering to the idea that people won't be able to comprehend the uniqueness of the activity. Edited February 6, 2011 by garfield 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) I realize this is what you're trying to establish. I've been hammering you hard (and you've been taking it quite well, my friend) because if woodwinds are allowed drum corps will morph, finally, into nothing more than summer marching band. Just like those circuits up north that compete in the summer. They are still marching bands. And the "experience" won't be what you profess, IMO. How many marching members will be willing to pay thousands to do what they do in the fall, when the only difference is that they get to shower and sleep together? How many parents will get the point and pay for the kid to march if the parents see it as a summer version of what they pay taxes to allow the kids to do in the fall? The project Persona study shows clearly that CMM do NOT want drum corps to be like band. Morphing closer to "band style", even if they shower and sleep together, will not draw more (or IMO as many) students interested in summer marching band. The most singular difference between the two is instrumentation, while I grant that sleeping/showering/touring are differences as well. If drum corps was to add woodwind instruments it would have maintain its "major league status" IT would have to capitalize that it does things at the highest level ever imaginable. I mean, that's sort of the difference between semi=pro and pro anything. What should happen is DCI just sticks with the commonly accepted term of drum corps, drum corps with out woodwinds. Then BOA can create their own version of summer band that involves woodwinds. Maybe Blue Devils can create BD-D which is their marching band devision and beat the Marching Bands of AMerica Summer Tour too. The competition between the two circuits will be good. Variety, again, is the answer... Edited February 6, 2011 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 In actuality when I'm watching drum corps on my computer, I'm actually just watching a series of pixels changing in a uniform pattern that my brain compiles as recognizable images. Am I really looking at a drum corps? Is a drum corps then just a series of pixels that I associate to be a drum corps in my mind!? I can haz grum kor? Is there any doubt in your mind when you're in the stands watching it live? When you watch it on the computer you're re-experiencing the understanding and feelings you had seeing it live in the stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Is there any doubt in your mind when you're in the stands watching it live? When you watch it on the computer you're re-experiencing the understanding and feelings you had seeing it live in the stands. I often think that I am in the matrix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 If drum corps was to add woodwind instruments it would have maintain its "major league status" IT would have to capitalize that it does things at the highest level ever imaginable. I mean, that's sort of the difference between semi=pro and pro anything. What should happen is DCI just sticks with the commonly accepted term of drum corps, drum corps with out woodwinds. Then BOA can create their own version of summer band that involves woodwinds. Maybe Blue Devils can create BD-D which is their marching band devision and beat the Marching Bands of AMerica Summer Tour too. The competition between the two circuits will be good. Variety, again, is the answer... Absolutely! Bring it on! Why not invite bands to compete in drum corps shows? And get their parents in the stands! Yeah, that's...oh wait. Band directors don't want to give up their vacations. Yeah, that's a problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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