charlie1223 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) Wait. Blast IS drum corps, it's just done on a stage instead of a football field. Blast has it's roots in drum corps, and drum corps has it's roots in military field calls. Ergo, BLAST! has it's roots in military field calls and IS drum corps because it uses brass, percussion, and color guard. That's your opinion. I don't think its drum corps, I think Blast is as close to DCI drum corps as marching band is to drum corps. The location of the performance is a defining characteristic of DCI drum corps. Is it similar? DEFINETLY! But it is still different than DCI drum corps. You're right that it's instrumentation in context. And the context is/was that the military did not use woodwinds for field calls*. The woodwind instrumentation was not in the military, so when military groups started drum corps they didn't use woodwinds. And because they didn't use woodwinds, and they were not associated with a scholastic program, they did not call them marching bands. The context of the instrumentation is THE defining context that separates drum corps from marching band. If you're just talking about instrumentation... And say, "what's so different about the instrumentation ALONE?" Then lack of woodwinds is the distinction. But you step back and say... what are the specific difference that make drum corps as an activity under Drum Corps International unique and different from other activities similar to it... your scope broadens to go BEYOND just instrumentation ALONE. It's a number of things and those things are significant because of the DEGREE in which they are a part of the activity. Edited February 5, 2011 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Wait. Blast IS drum corps, it's just done on a stage instead of a football field. Blast has it's roots in drum corps, and drum corps has it's roots in military field calls. Ergo, BLAST! has it's roots in military field calls and IS drum corps because it uses brass, percussion, and color guard. You're right that it's instrumentation in context. And the context is/was that the military did not use woodwinds for field calls*. The woodwind instrumentation was not in the military, so when military groups started drum corps they didn't use woodwinds. And because they didn't use woodwinds, and they were not associated with a scholastic program, they did not call them marching bands. The context of the instrumentation is THE defining context that separates drum corps from marching band. *The painting Spirit of '76 (remember, the fife [a woodwind], drum and flag) came to my mind as I was typing this because the artist, Archibald Willard painted it in my hometown of Wellington, OH. Does this mean they used woodwinds in the military? Yes, but only for parades and not for field calls. A fife would never be heard over the roar of the cannon.) /end trivia lesson and back to the argument Blast! used woodwinds on Tour 2...it wasn't drum corps then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 1. the marching bands have the same staff...not just staff. The kids in these top bands are also in drum corps. 2. level of achievement isn't exclusive to drum corps. level of achievement isn't exclusive to drum corps... duh. The elusive "concept" or "idea" of "level achievement" isn't exclusive. But the level of achievement as it pertains to color guard, percussion/electronics, brass, together is unmatched in any similar activity. The highest level of achievement within the distinctions of drum corps is unmatched by any other similar organization. The level of achievement achieved by the top 5 in the activity can not be rivaled by any other organization currently or in history. That makes it unique. 3. now you are reverting back to the cmm side of the argument, and not the fan side of the argument. I don't care that they sleep on gym floors for 2 months...all I care about is the show. Well, then you see why CONTEXT is so important. If you were to ask me the same question about what makes drum corps as performing medium to an audience member different/unique, then the answer would have been different. I described to you the context of the activity and organization as WHOLE and not taking a subjective perspective. 4. what happened to the tradition? most of the major traditions that made drum corps unique have been removed by director votes, and most of these during the last 10 years. G bugles, retreat, the addition of electronics. The directors don't seem to care about the tradition of drum corps, yet legacy fans get castigated when they say they are done with drum corps..."they are too narrow minded...they need to grow". Why should a fan care about drum corps when drum corps doesn't care about the fan? Lets just say, for arguments sake that the sound is why some people attend drum corps. Electronics change that sound. Instrumentation is what makes drum corps unique for a lot of fans. And I don't disagree with those people given their specific circumstance or context. But the reason they feel like that is because that is their subjective point of view. Objectively, is a different story all together. Are you talking about tradition as it is perceived on the field by an audience members or tradition in the activity as a whole? Those are two very different contexts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 The location of the performance is a defining characteristic of DCI drum corps. How can the location of the performance be a defining characteristic of drum corps when marching bands play on a football field, and marching bands give indoor concerts on a stage? Location doesn't matter. Both musical groups can play on a field or on a stage. The defining difference is instrumentation, and the context is military roots or scholastic music class. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Blast! used woodwinds on Tour 2...it wasn't drum corps then... You're right. It became marching band on a stage. Just as drum corps will become marching band on the field if the instrumentation is changed to allow scholastic instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 How can the location of the performance be a defining characteristic of drum corps when marching bands play on a football field, and marching bands give indoor concerts on a stage? Location doesn't matter. Both musical groups can play on a field or on a stage. The defining difference is instrumentation, and the context is military roots or scholastic music class. Period. Disagree. Lack of woodwinds is part of it for sure but its NOT the only thing. If you had brass and percussion ensemble that plays indoors and does arrangements of baroque music. Is that a drum corps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 level of achievement isn't exclusive to drum corps... duh. The elusive "concept" or "idea" of "level achievement" isn't exclusive. But the level of achievement as it pertains to color guard, percussion/electronics, brass, together is unmatched in any similar activity. The highest level of achievement within the distinctions of drum corps is unmatched by any other similar organization. The level of achievement achieved by the top 5 in the activity can not be rivaled by any other organization currently or in history. That makes it unique. Well, then you see why CONTEXT is so important. If you were to ask me the same question about what makes drum corps as performing medium to an audience member different/unique, then the answer would have been different. I described to you the context of the activity and organization as WHOLE and not taking a subjective perspective. And I don't disagree with those people given their specific circumstance or context. But the reason they feel like that is because that is their subjective point of view. Objectively, is a different story all together. Are you talking about tradition as it is perceived on the field by an audience members or tradition in the activity as a whole? Those are two very different contexts. fans don't lament what they still have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) And I don't disagree with those people given their specific circumstance or context. But the reason they feel like that is because that is their subjective point of view. Objectively, is a different story all together. You still haven't addressed this context: You're right that it's instrumentation in context. And the context is/was that the military did not use woodwinds for field calls*. The woodwind instrumentation was not in the military, so when military groups started drum corps they didn't use woodwinds. And because they didn't use woodwinds, and they were not associated with a scholastic program, they did not call them marching bands.The context of the instrumentation is THE defining context that separates drum corps from marching band. And what about this: Instrumentation doesn't stop with the horns. Why did drum corps have a "guard" that twirled rifles instead of batons? Marching bands of the day had baton twirlers but drum corps didn't use them. Why? Because drum corps was military-rooted, not scholastic-rooted. EDIT:And they didn't throw batons at each other on the battlefield. I'm patient. I'll wait... Edited February 5, 2011 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) Disagree. Lack of woodwinds is part of it for sure but its NOT the only thing. If you had brass and percussion ensemble that plays indoors and does arrangements of baroque music. Is that a drum corps? Baroque is a style of music, not a style of instrumentation. EDIT: If a drum corps played a brass and percussion arrangement of a baroque piece of music in a parade it would still be a drum corps. Edited February 5, 2011 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 in a strict definition, they aren't even percussion instruments. (ok, very strict) when striking a percussion instrument, it is the interaction of the beater and the instrument, and the resultant acoustic sound waves emanating through the air that causes the sound. This isn't the case with electric drums. Electric drums are synthesizers. Using that reasoning, slide whistles, samba whistles, bird calls are not percussion instruments and therefore should not be allowed in DCI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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