BlooContraGuy Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 A good way to understand the term “accessible” (at least how I believe it's being bandied about on these boards) might be to imagine a conversation of a DC design team laying out the first run through: Designer #1: “OK, here’s where we visually state the confusion and depression of the musical moment……atonal effects and a dark departure reflected in the dissonance, then….” Designer #2: “Wait a frickin’ minute….we can’t put that artsy crap in here….no one’s gonna understand it, it’s far too dark and inaccessible! You know these DCI crowds! They have the attention span of a kangaroo rat and musical range of a juice harp!” Designer #1: “Accessible? You mean like 4/4 time? Look…I’m trying to create a mood here that shows the highs & lows of musical & visual emotion; deep fractures, then beautiful resolve, so……” Designer #2: “Oh, please! Spare me the Philip Glass interprets Mahler bit….have you looked at the stands lately? That thousand yard stare?….it’s confused brain cells colliding like bumper cars! We need to do the familiar… long phases so their brains can imprint and process the sound!” Designer #1: “I quit!” Designer #2: “Fine, don’t let the door hit you in the ###!” “Now, where was I? Oh, yes…. company front and simple gifts!” hahaha awesome. Way to make a point in a new, fun and interesting way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Why does it have to be black or white? I'm sure there are probably more audience members out there than you give credit to, that actually do get what it is the corps are trying to convey with the esoteric stuff, but it leaves them stale because there's no connection for them to relate to. Do the mind-bending, artsy, WTF-did-I-just-see stuff. But make me care about it. Make me wanna find out. No, it is certainly not black and white! Come on T, I think you understand the degrees of humor. Satire needs extremes to make a point! And in that exact same way, music and visual design needs extremes in their spectrum’s range. IMO, you only truly understand and appreciate the “big & beautiful” when your ears & eyes have strained to understand and appreciate the small & unfamiliar. I'm so glad that I stuck with Jazz after my first few hearings years ago that didn't go so well. I finally got a bit invested as an appreciator, had a few friends that got me to open my ears and my mind, and I get it now! Instead of reprimanding music and visual designers for going to different places with this activity, we (on DCP) should be celebrating these advanced guard, and encouraging the musical and visual exploration. As you may know, it’s my concerted opinion that this "avante garde & non accessible" stuff only comes up because one of the main corps doing it….wins! If they were 9th place, this all would be a conversational footnote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 No, it is certainly not black and white! Come on T, I think you understand the degrees of humor. Satire needs extremes to make a point! And in that exact same way, music and visual design needs extremes in their spectrum’s range. IMO, you only truly understand and appreciate the “big & beautiful” when your ears & eyes have strained to understand and appreciate the small & unfamiliar. I'm so glad that I stuck with Jazz after my first few hearings years ago that didn't go so well. I finally got a bit invested as an appreciator, had a few friends that got me to open my ears and my mind, and I get it now! Instead of reprimanding music and visual designers for going to different places with this activity, we (on DCP) should be celebrating these advanced guard, and encouraging the musical and visual exploration. As you may know, it’s my concerted opinion that this "avante garde & non accessible" stuff only comes up because one of the main corps doing it….wins! If they were 9th place, this all would be a conversational footnote! You're probably right about it being a non-issue if BD wasn't winning. And I know there's satire involved, but since it was coming from you, I chose to ignore it. And I don't think the main gripe (at least for me) is that corps are exploring the musical and visual boundaries. I think it stems from (broken record, I know) the lack of a connection. It's a fine line to walk more often than not, and I applaud those that at least try. But drum corps is a pretty niche activity. Going to far in either direction without making people care or placating them too much just deepens that niche, IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 You're probably right about it being a non-issue if BD wasn't winning. And I know there's satire involved, but since it was coming from you, I chose to ignore it. And I don't think the main gripe (at least for me) is that corps are exploring the musical and visual boundaries. I think it stems from (broken record, I know) the lack of a connection. It's a fine line to walk more often than not, and I applaud those that at least try. But drum corps is a pretty niche activity. Going to far in either direction without making people care or placating them too much just deepens that niche, IMO. Uh oh, you might be caught in the Great Divide....contact Precipices R Us for assistance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Uh oh, you might be caught in the Great Divide....contact Precipices R Us for assistance! Or maybe I'm just grumpy and looking at this whole thing through a glass, darkly. ... Need to swing by Antidepressants R Us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmt2116 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I think the best shows achieve a balance of both. They should challenge your thinking without leaving you alienated. That is my personal definition of good art, drum corps or otherwise. However, it doesn't mean that shows that are on either end of the spectrum are bad either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) As you may know, it’s my concerted opinion that this "avante garde & non accessible" stuff only comes up because one of the main corps doing it….wins! If they were 9th place, this all would be a conversational footnote! I don't recall however that Santa Clara Vanguard was criticized in '89 because their show was too" Accessible" and not " Avant- Garde " enough with the fans or the judges when they won it in '89. I do recall however that lower placing Corps in '89 were criticized for being too far out there in the " Avant- Garde " realm. Corps can win with both " Avant- Garde " shows and with fan " Accessible " shows. They key however today is what the Visual and Guard do. Both have to be Avant Garde in order to score and place well, imo. It doesn't matter much if the music is" accessible" or "avant garde" at all in terms of scores and placements. That said, most ( certainly not all ) fans prefer " Accessible " music over " Avant Garde " music. That's just the national human condition, and of no real surprise. But the top 12 Corps in either World Class or Open Class offer both " Accessible " shows and " Avant- Garde " shows, so everybody should be happy with this, it seems to me. Edited March 29, 2011 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Instead of reprimanding music and visual designers for going to different places with this activity, we (on DCP) should be celebrating these advanced guard, and encouraging the musical and visual exploration. As you may know, it’s my concerted opinion that this "avante garde & non accessible" stuff only comes up because one of the main corps doing it….wins! If they were 9th place, this all would be a conversational footnote! The volume of discussion is certainly related to placement but I think it would still be discussed quite a bit. The issue does not revolve around musical or visual exploration or pushing boundaries. Drum corps is an adjudicated performance activity. I think most of the discussion on here revolves around an apparent disconnect between the criteria as written (where audience communication is a key concept) and the criteria as interpreted by DCI panels. In effect -- many don't understand how a program that "loses" so many in the audience could possibly be construed as having successfully communicated. That's it. Nothing about boundaries. Nothing about avant-garde. Nothing about discouraging exploration. The word accessible is controversial because it's how many viewers chose to express this apparent disconnect. I'm all for edgy, controversial, new, unexplored and avant-garde --- so long as you take the audience with you. Because if you "lose" the audience ( IMO) you've fundamentally failed in your creation. It may have merits outside the boundaries of judged performances -- it may indeed be "art". But (in this activity at least) your first responsibility is to your audience. In my view this is not only the meaning but the purpose of GE captions. It seeks to reward virtuosity, excellence, and artistry *only* when those characteristics are bound in a vehicle which captures and retains the audience's attention throughout production. Clearly there's a wide diversity of opinion at to whether BD'10 captured and retained the audience's attention. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 The volume of discussion is certainly related to placement but I think it would still be discussed quite a bit. The issue does not revolve around musical or visual exploration or pushing boundaries. Drum corps is an adjudicated performance activity. I think most of the discussion on here revolves around an apparent disconnect between the criteria as written (where audience communication is a key concept) and the criteria as interpreted by DCI panels. In effect -- many don't understand how a program that "loses" so many in the audience could possibly be construed as having successfully communicated. That's it. Nothing about boundaries. Nothing about avant-garde. Nothing about discouraging exploration. The word accessible is controversial because it's how many viewers chose to express this apparent disconnect. I'm all for edgy, controversial, new, unexplored and avant-garde --- so long as you take the audience with you. Because if you "lose" the audience ( IMO) you've fundamentally failed in your creation. It may have merits outside the boundaries of judged performances -- it may indeed be "art". But (in this activity at least) your first responsibility is to your audience. In my view this is not only the meaning but the purpose of GE captions. It seeks to reward virtuosity, excellence, and artistry *only* when those characteristics are bound in a vehicle which captures and retains the audience's attention throughout production. Clearly there's a wide diversity of opinion at to whether BD'10 captured and retained the audience's attention. Get out of my brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Get out of my brain. If that were true then *you* would have insider info 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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