Fran Haring Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 These threads are always so funny to watch. It starts as an honest query to see what people think and then someone always clings to the "copying" issue as if the corps specifically sit down and copy another show. Maybe they just liked the music and thus why they used it. They usually try to put their own spin on it, so the idea may be similar, but why would they copy it? How does this work when some corps play the same music year after year? Are they copying themselves from other years? How about the corps who have brought in DCI arrangers and instructors and have used some of the music that they already used? Does that fall into the same category? Just because it may have been done before in another form, does that make it sacred and un-useable by anyone forever? Just because it is original doesn't mean that it is good or that it will work. Is it bad to see a successful idea and concept being used by another group and being just as successful? Does that make it any less entertaining? It's funny to see the same old people following every statement with an asterisk. "Those guys were great.* except they played something that was done before, somewhere on this planet." Who cares? How about you go to a show and get your face blown off by one of these corps instead of nitpicking the corps who are all working hard to put on an entertaining presentation. Well-said, Ken. Completely on the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Yowza! Silliest show ever. I wanted to barf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOSMarcher Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 well, Ok...Bucs did a Demons and Angels show a few years ago, and now all of the sudden so are the Cadets, along with several other light vs. drak DCI shows this year. so it can go both ways Agreed, I actually thought about that last night. I certainly wasn't saying that DCA is exclusive to this, but the percepation is that they do it more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOSMarcher Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 These threads are always so funny to watch. It starts as an honest query to see what people think and then someone always clings to the "copying" issue as if the corps specifically sit down and copy another show. Maybe they just liked the music and thus why they used it. They usually try to put their own spin on it, so the idea may be similar, but why would they copy it? How does this work when some corps play the same music year after year? Are they copying themselves from other years? How about the corps who have brought in DCI arrangers and instructors and have used some of the music that they already used? Does that fall into the same category? Just because it may have been done before in another form, does that make it sacred and un-useable by anyone forever? Just because it is original doesn't mean that it is good or that it will work. Is it bad to see a successful idea and concept being used by another group and being just as successful? Does that make it any less entertaining? It's funny to see the same old people following every statement with an asterisk. "Those guys were great.* except they played something that was done before, somewhere on this planet." Who cares? How about you go to a show and get your face blown off by one of these corps instead of nitpicking the corps who are all working hard to put on an entertaining presentation. Its funny, because yes, I think groups that do the same music every year are not pushing the envelope either... which is the point of this thread. For the record, I do go to shows, but I have not been to Finals in a while. The groups that I get to see are trying new ideas, and that is what keeps it entertaining for me. This whole thread is about pushing the envelope, and I personally think that if you are ripping an idea from another group, you are not pushing the envelope in design as much as a group with an original thought... which is the point of this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtreme0204 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 These threads are always so funny to watch. It starts as an honest query to see what people think and then someone always clings to the "copying" issue as if the corps specifically sit down and copy another show. Maybe they just liked the music and thus why they used it. They usually try to put their own spin on it, so the idea may be similar, but why would they copy it? How does this work when some corps play the same music year after year? Are they copying themselves from other years? How about the corps who have brought in DCI arrangers and instructors and have used some of the music that they already used? Does that fall into the same category? Just because it may have been done before in another form, does that make it sacred and un-useable by anyone forever? Just because it is original doesn't mean that it is good or that it will work. Is it bad to see a successful idea and concept being used by another group and being just as successful? Does that make it any less entertaining? It's funny to see the same old people following every statement with an asterisk. "Those guys were great.* except they played something that was done before, somewhere on this planet." Who cares? How about you go to a show and get your face blown off by one of these corps instead of nitpicking the corps who are all working hard to put on an entertaining presentation. Hmm. I feel like we're "rehashing" this topic again. This definately isn't pushing the envelope... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldephard Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 You use 2010 Bucs as an example of ripping an idea from another group and then go on to say it's not just the music selection. What other elements of that show did you recognize from Star of Indiana or Phantom. Guard work? Drill? Costumes? Special effects? Just curious, because I did not get that impression, although with 19 years in between, it's hard to remember everything. (Vidoes don't give you the whole picture.) Its funny, because yes, I think groups that do the same music every year are not pushing the envelope either... which is the point of this thread. For the record, I do go to shows, but I have not been to Finals in a while. The groups that I get to see are trying new ideas, and that is what keeps it entertaining for me. This whole thread is about pushing the envelope, and I personally think that if you are ripping an idea from another group, you are not pushing the envelope in design as much as a group with an original thought... which is the point of this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOSMarcher Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 You use 2010 Bucs as an example of ripping an idea from another group and then go on to say it's not just the music selection. What other elements of that show did you recognize from Star of Indiana or Phantom. Guard work? Drill? Costumes? Special effects? Just curious, because I did not get that impression, although with 19 years in between, it's hard to remember everything. (Vidoes don't give you the whole picture.) There were some visual ideas borrowed (ie: the straight leg marching by the hornline). The idea of a Rome show just gives the strong sense of being borrowed, ESPECIALLY when you exclusively use music that has been used by the only other two shows dealing with Roman ideas. Maybe if new music had been picked it would not have been so obvious, but that with the some of the visual ideas taken is why I feel like it was too much of the same. I did think that of all the guard uniforms in the three Roman shows, the Bucs had the best one. Like I said, I thought they deserved to win, as they certainly had the best overall package to offer. I feel like my statement would gather more debate if I said, "groups in DCA have pushed the envelope of the activity the most for having the most original ideas!" It simply is not true. We can come up with examples on both sides (DCI and DCA), but if we were keeping a tally of who has borrowed more, the answer would be DCA. With that being said, I think our activity has created this habit. We create the world that we live in and it seems that doing what others have done is what is getting rewarded. If I was a design staff in DCA, I would probably do the same thing, because that is what gets the job done. Honestly, this is my opinion and it is very obvious that there are people that do not agree, but honestly, we keep talking about selling tickets to shows, and I am not sure if what we are doing now is really getting the job done on that front. I think moving Championships is certainly going to help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrassMan09 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 There were some visual ideas borrowed (ie: the straight leg marching by the hornline). The idea of a Rome show just gives the strong sense of being borrowed, ESPECIALLY when you exclusively use music that has been used by the only other two shows dealing with Roman ideas. Maybe if new music had been picked it would not have been so obvious, but that with the some of the visual ideas taken is why I feel like it was too much of the same. I did think that of all the guard uniforms in the three Roman shows, the Bucs had the best one. Like I said, I thought they deserved to win, as they certainly had the best overall package to offer. I feel like my statement would gather more debate if I said, "groups in DCA have pushed the envelope of the activity the most for having the most original ideas!" It simply is not true. We can come up with examples on both sides (DCI and DCA), but if we were keeping a tally of who has borrowed more, the answer would be DCA. With that being said, I think our activity has created this habit. We create the world that we live in and it seems that doing what others have done is what is getting rewarded. If I was a design staff in DCA, I would probably do the same thing, because that is what gets the job done. Honestly, this is my opinion and it is very obvious that there are people that do not agree, but honestly, we keep talking about selling tickets to shows, and I am not sure if what we are doing now is really getting the job done on that front. I think moving Championships is certainly going to help. The straight "German Leg" is commercial and recognizable -- I think it was just a marketing brand for the show concept. I believe there is a market for what DCA does -- The crowd wants to hear recognizable music and I believe the top 6 does that. Something to think about -- Who really pushing the boundaries in our activity? I'm not sure according to your definition but I would say go to BOA's and see how fresh the top 15 are. Maybe Bucs do push the envelope for the weekend activity maybe they don't? PS. I agree moving finals will help a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike McMullen Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I probably shouldn't be saying this but the Buc's entire show this year consist of them sitting in chairs looking in mirrors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I probably shouldn't be saying this but the Buc's entire show this year consist of them sitting in chairs looking in mirrors. Are they narrating Yowza Yowza Yowza??? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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