Phirebird Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 One gripe I constantly hear from some fans is that DCI isn't a "youth" activity anymore. There aren't "neighborhood" corps that take in kids, teach them to play and be disciplined, etc. The other major gripe I hear (often from the same segment of fans) is about the G8. We all know the arguments, no need to rehash them here. But I dream of a day when the G8 is not needed anymore. Not dead or replaced, just not needed. Why? Because we have 12-16 corps in WC left. I know what you're thinking...but hear me out. Now these remaining corps are each a powerhouse. Every single year is a mystery as to who will win. A corps could place 14th one year, 3rd then next and then take gold the next year. No longer are we sitting around talking about BD, Cadets, and The Cavaliers being shoe-ins for the top 3 and hope that one or two corps might challenge their dominance this year. Now I know what a lot of you are thinking. Not very many corps. Where will kids get the experience you knew BITD? This isn't to say that there shouldn't be a 2nd tier of drum corps (perhaps a feeder corps system?). But times have changed. Where are kids getting their experience? Marching Band. Marching bands these days ARE the neighborhood corps of days past. There's at least one in every town and they do exactly what the corps of yesteryear did. They take kids and teach them to play and to march and to be disciplined. Ask anyone who has ever been in marching band or had a kid in marching band or worked with a marching band; kids in band are some of the best kids in school. Not because band draws in the "good" kids, but because it fosters those good attributes. Isn't that what most older fans miss from the neighborhood drum corps? So isn't it time that we let the past be the past? Respect it, remember it, but it's time to move on. Kids across the country are getting solid educations and get to aspire to compete at a truly pro level. And as a fan, I for one know that I would love to attend a finals night where it's anyone's game. What say you, DCP? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 What say you, DCP? Okay, but my question for you is how do we go from this: . . . BD, Cadets, and The Cavaliers being shoe-ins for the top 3 and hope that one or two corps might challenge their dominance this year. . . .to this: These remaining corps are each a powerhouse. Every single year is a mystery as to who will win. A corps could place 14th one year, 3rd then next and then take gold the next year. I'm not finding fault with your idea of having 12-16 "supercorps", but just how you expect things to get to that point logistically, tour-wise, and what kinds of changes there might have to be judging-wise for "any given night" as you propose above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 A corps could place 14th one year, 3rd then next and then take gold the next year. No longer are we sitting around talking about BD, Cadets, and The Cavaliers being shoe-ins for the top 3 and hope that one or two corps might challenge their dominance this year. What say you, DCP? I love your enthusiasm. But just one question.. have you been in a time capsule since around maybe 1975 or so ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phirebird Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 I love your enthusiasm. But just one question.. have you been in a time capsule since around maybe 1975 or so ? Care to expand, or are you just going to be snarky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phirebird Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Okay, but my question for you is how do we go from this: . . . . . .to this: I'm not finding fault with your idea of having 12-16 "supercorps", but just how you expect things to get to that point logistically, tour-wise, and what kinds of changes there might have to be judging-wise for "any given night" as you propose above. We promote primarily the best DCI has to offer to the "non DCI fan-base." We do so a little, but at great grievance from the current fan-base. You have to show the best of your available products. Your fan-base already knows the whole game and all the players. The best draw the new fans in. But it really would take the great majority of the current fan-base being on board with the idea for it to work. In order for that to happen, we need to realize that marching band is doing the purpose of the DCs of yesteryear treat DCI as the marketable sport/cultural event that it is. But to be honest it's just an idea. The actual fleshing out would have to come from much more business-savvy minds then mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7567BC Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Ugh. every time I hear or see a suggestion thet Drum Corps and band be joined in some manner, I want to scream. People (I won't say "everyone" because it is not "everyone") are concerned that the fan base is diminishing. Maybe it's true (maybe not) but trying to morph the activities or slowly transition DC to a band entity is, to me, not the answer. Why can't DC be DC? Why does it need to be like band? Because it allows more kids to participate? Why don't the corps themselves have a dedicated recruiting arm that recruits kids or markets themselves to kids to be in a drum corp and provides the uniqueness of Drum Corp as the appeal? IMO trying to make DC something else will accelerate its demise. If what is proposed from time to time was the answer then other activities or organizations would change their make up to widen appeal. Tear fenders of Nascar cars and become Indy racers. Get rid of bats and baseballs in MLB and use teniis rackets and tennis balls instead. Double the interest! How about more flavors for coffee so coffee never tastes like coffee. You get my point. A diminishing fan or participant base may not be so much because of the activity itself but more that there are many many more activities vying for kids time. Many of which are much less expensive than DC. How about we just let DC be DC and enable the product continue to improve on it's own, as it has been recently. No more tinkering, the dial has been been move enough lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 But I dream of a day when the G8 is not needed anymore. Not dead or replaced, just not needed. Why? Because we have 12-16 corps in WC left. I know what you're thinking...but hear me out. Now these remaining corps are each a powerhouse. Every single year is a mystery as to who will win. A corps could place 14th one year, 3rd then next and then take gold the next year. No longer are we sitting around talking about BD, Cadets, and The Cavaliers being shoe-ins for the top 3 and hope that one or two corps might challenge their dominance this year. Let me get this straight... you believe that getting rid of Open Class and World Class 17th-23rd would allow Academy (2010's 14th place) to place 3rd this year and win next year? Because lots of marching bands exist? We can definitely make a list of reasons why Academy is not in 3rd place. The existence of Pioneer and Teal Sound is not going to come in very high on that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skajerk Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Ugh. every time I hear or see a suggestion thet Drum Corps and band be joined in some manner, I want to scream. People (I won't say "everyone" because it is not "everyone") are concerned that the fan base is diminishing. Maybe it's true (maybe not) but trying to morph the activities or slowly transition DC to a band entity is, to me, not the answer. Why can't DC be DC? Why does it need to be like band? Because it allows more kids to participate? Why don't the corps themselves have a dedicated recruiting arm that recruits kids or markets themselves to kids to be in a drum corp and provides the uniqueness of Drum Corp as the appeal? IMO trying to make DC something else will accelerate its demise. If what is proposed from time to time was the answer then other activities or organizations would change their make up to widen appeal. Tear fenders of Nascar cars and become Indy racers. Get rid of bats and baseballs in MLB and use teniis rackets and tennis balls instead. Double the interest! How about more flavors for coffee so coffee never tastes like coffee. You get my point. A diminishing fan or participant base may not be so much because of the activity itself but more that there are many many more activities vying for kids time. Many of which are much less expensive than DC. How about we just let DC be DC and enable the product continue to improve on it's own, as it has been recently. No more tinkering, the dial has been been move enough lately. *Waiting For Mike D. to chime in* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) Care to expand, or are you just going to be snarky? Approx. 80% of the DCI Titles have been one by The Cadevaliers ( Cadets, Devs, Cavaliers ) since 1979. Every decade or so, some other Corps wins the DCI Title before falling way back or disappearing altogether. My comments were directed to your apparent belief that there is a surprise most years as to who wins the DCI Title, quite apart from these 3 Corps. However, as the historical data seems to demonstrate, the " surprise " is when one of the Cadevaliers does not win the DCI Title in a given year. Once gain, almost like clockwork, here we are in July, 2011, and the Cadevaliers are well positioned to win it all once again. Can some other Corps besides the Cadevaliers win the DCI this year ? Sure. But they'll have to top not 1 or 2 of the Cadevaliers to do so, but all three. I do think it's possible. But I'd be " surprised " if any other Corps did, and I certainly wouldn't bet the farm on it. Would you ? Who do you predict will win the DCI Title this year by the way ? I'm predicting The Cadets. But perhaps, it'll be the Cavs or Devs ( Crown, maybe a longshot. ) Edited July 5, 2011 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 But I dream of a day when the G8 is not needed anymore. Not dead or replaced, just not needed. Why? Because we have 12-16 corps in WC left. I know what you're thinking...but hear me out. ....um....OK. (By the way, you don't know what I am thinking....but you will soon.) Now these remaining corps are each a powerhouse. Every single year is a mystery as to who will win. A corps could place 14th one year, 3rd then next and then take gold the next year. No longer are we sitting around talking about BD, Cadets, and The Cavaliers being shoe-ins for the top 3 and hope that one or two corps might challenge their dominance this year. Well, that part sounds great. But like Bawker asked above, how do we make that happen? Now I know what a lot of you are thinking. Not very many corps. Where will kids get the experience you knew BITD? This isn't to say that there shouldn't be a 2nd tier of drum corps (perhaps a feeder corps system?). But times have changed. Where are kids getting their experience? Marching Band.Marching bands these days ARE the neighborhood corps of days past. There's at least one in every town and they do exactly what the corps of yesteryear did. (snipped MB testimonial) For the sake of accuracy....no, there's not one in every town. Less than 20% of high schools have competitive marching band programs. Oh, and they don't do exactly what the corps of yesteryear did, either....not "exactly"....but that's a debate for another day. So isn't it time that we let the past be the past? Respect it, remember it, but it's time to move on. Kids across the country are getting solid educations and get to aspire to compete at a truly pro level. And as a fan, I for one know that I would love to attend a finals night where it's anyone's game. Now you have totally lost me. 1. What aspect of "the past" is it exactly that you are urging the rest of us to "move on" from? Having more than 16 corps? 2. If I guessed correctly in #1, then please explain where you see even a potential causal link between killing those corps programs and causing the remaining 14-16 corps to somehow achieve utopian competitive parity. (Frankly, I'd be concerned for the sustainability of a DCI with only 16 corps left, even if they did have utopian competitive parity.) 3. I don't understand what you are referring to with comments like "solid educations", or "compete at a truly pro level". At that point, your post begins to sound like one of those "it's OK to kill off all but the top 15 supercorps because marching band replaces all the other corps" posts. And to that, I won't agree. You don't need to convince me that marching band has educational value. I was in a uniquely excellent HS marching band program that changed my life. But nobody outside of my hometown had that option....and as I said before, over 80% of today's HS kids don't have ANY competitive marching band option. Never mind the college kids. Drum corps allow those other 80% to join. How about letting the market decide how many drum corps we should have? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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