What happened to pleasing the crowd?

[rainshdw08]

Hello to all!

Whatever happened to pleasing the crowd?

I marched from 81 to 83, yes a long time ago and Drum Corps has came a LONG way, there is no disputing that. I could sit here and complain about today's Drum Corps, the electronics, the soloist's playing into microphones, the lack of good marching and on and on blah blah blah...but I won't because that's not the point. This has nothing to do with the kids either, I think they are all great and everytime I get to talk to some current members in the stands after shows, I make sure to tell them they are. For the record I have been out of Drum Corps the past few years, other than looking at scores on the internet or maybe watching streaming live video, due to life issues. However this year I've already been to 3 shows and have plans for 6 more.

Ok before I rant, I'd just like to cover this year first. Shows are waaay better than i've seen in the past, not sure if its because DCI is asking the corps to work on being more entertaining or because the corps know the scoring is changing next year (I think) to reflect it. For example: Carolina Crown's show where the Drum Line comes out in the beginning for warm ups and just jams for a few min while the horn line plays dances to the beats. The entire show is pretty entertaining, it's exciting to watch! Or the Cavies with thier upsidedown tenors, bass drums and sopranos! not to mention a cool drill and great sounding show. Or the Blue Stars with their scaffolding, pretty cool stuff, another snow I can cheer for. Or the Troopers, where just before the end of the show the Horn Line plays a long note fairly loud, then the Drum Major turns around and salutes the crowd AS THE HORNS GET LOUDER! and they don't even have a full horn line, I was loving that. I have yet to see SCV live this year with thier crazy drill and Madison being back in near the top (next week!!)

Now the rant. Before this year, and still this year to some extent, Glassmen, BD, Phantom (such a letdown, I was pumped for this show) are all BORING shows. I feel sorry for the kids marching there this year. Not meant as an insult at all.

When I go back and listen to previous years CD's, which I do this time of year, there is a few constants in hearing the crowd roar...MADISON and SCV. Sorry to everyone else but it's true. I know there were some others that had crown pleasing abilities in different years, VK, Bridgeman or other shows that were amazing and made you want to jump off your butt and cheer! Go back and listen to Madison from 1980 til now...almost every year the crowd yells for them the most, why is that? its like that cause THEY PLAY TO THE CROWD, not the judges...SCV is almost the same way. Look at 91 Star of Indiana - BORING! and they won...huh? How is that possible? and don't tell me about scores and how much better they were...cause because people complained they came back and did that whole USA rah rah show just to prove they weren't robots.

Don't misunderstand me, I need scores and judging, and I know the top 6 corps are much better than the bottom six, but don't make me go to sleep in the stands! All that talent going to waste on a boring show. This years BD...thats the best show they could write from Bacharach's music? Really? 14 years winning it all and thats it? and of those 14 years, how many were boring but technically amazing?

For those of you with Fan Network go back and listen to the 89 Blue Devils...thats the BD I want and long for! and the 89 Vanguard, 89 Phantom, 89 Bluecoats, 91, 92, 95, 99 Madison shows VK in the late 80's and early 90's, Vanguard being emotional (Fiddler, phantom, Miss Saigon) Freelancers blowing our doors off at the beginning of every show! Madison and Cavies throwing rifles and flags everywhere and WHY DO WE NO HAVE COOL DRUM SOLO'S ANYMORE? This kills me. Ok you don't need to spend a whole 3min during the show and feature only drums but c'mon, at least step up to the front by the pit and show me something cool (this years Cavies!)

And what's the deal with no retreats? Sure I understand the time thing, trust me I do. But at least do them at the big shows (TOC, regional shows, local big shows) something. No need to salute the winner by each corps in an effort to save time, just get out there, set up, DM front and center, scores, winner encore, everyone else leave field. Simple. Kids today are missing out on that wonderful experience of not knowing what you scored and how it affects you. Its a competition for a reason. There's nothing like being a smaller corps or a up and coming corps, marching right next to a top 6 corps going out onto the field for retreat. Or being chosen to be the Drum Line that plays to march everyone on the field. Then getting out there , setting up your instruments, the CG doing some sort of stance to look better than the other CG's. The Drum Majors competing who'll be last getting up front and center, the reading of the scores and hearing your corps score and how close it was to the corps your trying to beat. I'll never forget the time we beat the Cavies! They read the score, "in third place with a score of 76.2, the Cavaliers" we were all freaking out and trying to keep our bearing...it was awesome!

First DCI has to fix this judging issues that makes Corps need to play to them to survive (credit to GeneralTsoChicken) I've heard this is Micheal Cesario's new job. Until DCI fixes the way they are to be judged, the writers of the shows hands are tied a bit but...whoever is writing these shows still need to work in that crowd pleasing element along with playing for score. It's not fair to the kids or the crowd. I want todays kids to have the same experience I did, I want them to feel the exhilaration of the crowd when they roar for you, I want them to be out on the field at retreat and feel what its like to have the crowd cheer for you again.

To the kids and young men and woman marching today, You are amazing! I can't begin to tell you how much I appreaciate you and I hope this is/has been a great experience fr you as it was for me. It's something that'll always be with you...always!

I know this is just a forum and what I say won't change anything but still, bring back pleasing the crowd for the love of God! For me, I don't care about whatever is choosen to enchance Drum Corps musically or how you use it, just make it innovative and make me wanna stand up and yell!! Lets just make it about letting the kids have fun and the crowd apprectiating that fun!

Done. Whew.

Edited July 8, 2011 by rainshdw08

[rainshdw08]

I'd like to give credit to bmroth1

"I only read through about half this thread and couldnt take it any longer. What in the world has happened to Drum Corps fans??? Drum Corps was an activity where parents and staff encouraged their corps from the stands. There use to be standing ovations in the middle of shows and staff on the side lines going NUTS yes I said NUTS! Audiences today for the most part are LAME! And expecting your staff to sit on their hands and not encourage their corps is just STUPID! This activity needs more excitement and response from the stands both in patrons and Staff! That was and should be Drum Corps. It even use to have an impact on General effect scores.So any suggestion that patrons and staff should act like they're in a concert hall should be thrown out the window!"

and hockeydad

"There used to be standing ovations in the middle of shows...because there were impact points in the middle of shows. For you to blame it on the fans...that's pretty funny. When half the shows are more like symphonic band concerts, the fans in the stands will react like the audience at a symphonic band concert. Polite applause at the end of the show. You want screaming fans, then write impact points into your shows!"

for the inspiration for this thread.

[oldtimedrummer]

Hello to all!

And what's the deal with no retreats? Sure I understand the time thing, trust me I do. But at least do them at the big shows (TOC, regional shows, local big shows) something. No need to salute the winner by each corps in an effort to save time, just get out there, set up, DM front and center, scores, winner encore, everyone else leave field. Simple. Kids today are missing out on that wonderful

The "time thing" translates into legal driving time for bus and semi drivers. Unless you have two sets of drivers, retreats are simply not feasible, big show or not.

As far as music selection is concerned, copyright infringement makes ripping entire musicals, movie scores, etc very costly and impractical. Some artists are flexible, but many are really hardcore about someone else playing their music. Copyright issues have changed the way shows are programed. It's a matter financial reality.

And finally, I don't think today's shows are boring at all. I find them very entertaining and engaging on many levels. The shows are certainly different from your era for sure, just as your era was different from mine. Different doesn't equal boring IMO. I think to a certain extent, we all long for "the good old days", when we marched. It's a human nature thing. But times change. I like to roll with it.

Edited July 8, 2011 by oldtimedrummer

[oldtimedrummer]

I want todays kids to have the same experience I did,.....

"When *you* was my age? When my old man was my age, when my brother was my age... You was never my age, none of ya! And the sooner you creeps get hip to that, the sooner you'll dig us!"

Edited July 8, 2011 by oldtimedrummer

[GeneralTsoChicken]

Look at 91 Star of Indiana - BORING! and they won...huh? How is that possible? and don't tell me about scores and how much better they were...cause because people complained they came back and did that whole USA rah rah show just to prove they weren't robots.

I think that's one of the most exciting shows of all time. Look at how exciting EVERYONE was in 91. PR, Crossmen, BD, Star, SCV.

I think the second you keep score, 99% of the time, you play to the scorecard. We are competitive by nature. Instead of blaming corps, who just want to do well, the problem is part of the system. Corps that succeed survive, they have little choice but to play to the sheets.

[rainshdw08]

The "time thing" translates into legal driving time for bus and semi drivers. Unless you have two sets of drivers, retreats are simply not feasible, big show or not.

As far as music selection is concerned, copyright infringement makes ripping entire musicals, movie scores, etc very costly and impractical. Some artists are flexible, but many are really hardcore about someone else playing their music. Copyright issues have changed the way shows are programed. It's a matter financial reality.

And finally, I don't think today's shows are boring at all. I find them very entertaining and engaging on many levels. The shows are certainly different from your era for sure, just as your era was different from mine. Different doesn't equal boring IMO. I think to a certain extent, we all long for "the good old days", when we marched. It's a human nature thing. But times change. I like to roll with it.

Ok, "time thing" as explained by you makes sense, I understand that from a law and financial standpoint. I also understand that they don't much time to have the shows earlier on a weekeday due to ppl being at work, but the Sat/Sun shows could if they started a bit earlier. They could work it out if they wanted to ...DCI just got lazy IMO. Its still a show, make it entertaining. Let me put it this way, if you (anyone, not you in particular) went to a rock concert, or any type of show, and they performed 3/4 of the show then left, would that be ok with you? It's nice to see the Dm's up close and personal but with today's society, I can just skip that part and check the scores on my phone, heck I can get recaps too and post right here if I like...not that I do dkip the DM retreat, just sayin I could. This is what my point to this thread was, pleasing the crowd.

As for the boring part....no, not all shows are boring, but a lot still are. That's easily fixable too. If I'm wrong here then why did DCI create a position called the Artistic Director. Micheal Cesario is working hard to make changes to make Drum Corps more accessable to the crowd. It's all about money - Listen to Field Pass: Cesario steps up as DCI's Artistic Director on December 9th Part 1 and 2. Just to be clear, (and in no offense to what you said) I'm not saying "Relive the old days" or Bring back the old days" or anything like that. I'm just saying make it cool again. Make it entertaining. The 2 shows I was at the crowd was lame. one was Lisle IL...the Cavies show. The troopers are blaring and the crowd just sits there, a few people stand at the end. Then the Cavies, their home show, not a real strong standing O at the end.

Case in point: The show in the theater this year recorded in Texas. Did you see the crowd? Were they jumping out of thier seats? For the most part no, more like a strong golf clap at times. You have the top 8 Drum Corps from last year and all you get is a smattering of applause? Yes ok, it was onlt the second show of the season and Yes ok, maybe they aren't a huge drum corps area like the Midwest or East but, if the corps were really putting on a show, the crowd would react accordingly.

[rainshdw08]

I think the second you keep score, 99% of the time, you play to the scorecard. We are competitive by nature. Instead of blaming corps, who just want to do well, the problem is part of the system. Corps that succeed survive, they have little choice but to play to the sheets.

Exactly what I'm saying...that's what's irritating. DCI is working to fix this, from my understanding. I'll have to edit that part in my post, wasn't meant to lay all the blame the Corps for that.

[danielray]

The crowd changed.

Completely different demographics of the crowd now compared to 70's-80's.

[TastyWaves]

Hello to all!

Whatever happened to pleasing the crowd?

I marched from 81 to 83, yes a long time ago and Drum Corps has came a LONG way, there is no disputing that. I could sit here and complain about today's Drum Corps, the electronics, the soloist's playing into microphones, the lack of good marching and on and on blah blah blah...but I won't because that's not the point. This has nothing to do with the kids either, I think they are all great and everytime I get to talk to some current members in the stands after shows, I make sure to tell them they are. For the record I have been out of Drum Corps the past few years, other than looking at scores on the internet or maybe watching streaming live video, due to life issues. However this year I've already been to 3 shows and have plans for 6 more.

Ok before I rant, I'd just like to cover this year first. Shows are waaay better than i've seen in the past, not sure if its because DCI is asking the corps to work on being more entertaining or because the corps know the scoring is changing next year (I think) to reflect it. For example: Carolina Crown's show where the Drum Line comes out in the beginning for warm ups and just jams for a few min while the horn line plays dances to the beats. The entire show is pretty entertaining, it's exciting to watch! Or the Cavies with thier upsidedown tenors, bass drums and sopranos! not to mention a cool drill and great sounding show. Or the Blue Stars with their scaffolding, pretty cool stuff, another snow I can cheer for. Or the Troopers, where just before the end of the show the Horn Line plays a long note fairly loud, then the Drum Major turns around and salutes the crowd AS THE HORNS GET LOUDER! and they don't even have a full horn line, I was loving that. I have yet to see SCV live this year with thier crazy drill and Madison being back in near the top (next week!!)

Now the rant. Before this year, and still this year to some extent, Glassmen, BD, Phantom (such a letdown, I was pumped for this show) are all BORING shows. I feel sorry for the kids marching there this year. Not meant as an insult at all.

When I go back and listen to previous years CD's, which I do this time of year, there is a few constants in hearing the crowd roar...MADISON and SCV. Sorry to everyone else but it's true. I know there were some others that had crown pleasing abilities in different years, VK, Bridgeman or other shows that were amazing and made you want to jump off your butt and cheer! Go back and listen to Madison from 1980 til now...almost every year the crowd yells for them the most, why is that? its like that cause THEY PLAY TO THE CROWD, not the judges...SCV is almost the same way. Look at 91 Star of Indiana - BORING! and they won...huh? How is that possible? and don't tell me about scores and how much better they were...cause because people complained they came back and did that whole USA rah rah show just to prove they weren't robots.

Don't misunderstand me, I need scores and judging, and I know the top 6 corps are much better than the bottom six, but don't make me go to sleep in the stands! All that talent going to waste on a boring show. This years BD...thats the best show they could write from Bacharach's music? Really? 14 years winning it all and thats it? and of those 14 years, how many were boring but technically amazing?

For those of you with Fan Network go back and listen to the 89 Blue Devils...thats the BD I want and long for! and the 89 Vanguard, 89 Phantom, 89 Bluecoats, 91, 92, 95, 99 Madison shows VK in the late 80's and early 90's, Vanguard being emotional (Fiddler, phantom, Miss Saigon) Freelancers blowing our doors off at the beginning of every show! Madison and Cavies throwing rifles and flags everywhere and WHY DO WE NO HAVE COOL DRUM SOLO'S ANYMORE? This kills me. Ok you don't need to spend a whole 3min during the show and feature only drums but c'mon, at least step up to the front by the pit and show me something cool (this years Cavies!)

And what's the deal with no retreats? Sure I understand the time thing, trust me I do. But at least do them at the big shows (TOC, regional shows, local big shows) something. No need to salute the winner by each corps in an effort to save time, just get out there, set up, DM front and center, scores, winner encore, everyone else leave field. Simple. Kids today are missing out on that wonderful experience of not knowing what you scored and how it affects you. Its a competition for a reason. There's nothing like being a smaller corps or a up and coming corps, marching right next to a top 6 corps going out onto the field for retreat. Or being chosen to be the Drum Line that plays to march everyone on the field. Then getting out there , setting up your instruments, the CG doing some sort of stance to look better than the other CG's. The Drum Majors competing who'll be last getting up front and center, the reading of the scores and hearing your corps score and how close it was to the corps your trying to beat. I'll never forget the time we beat the Cavies! They read the score, "in third place with a score of 76.2, the Cavaliers" we were all freaking out and trying to keep our bearing...it was awesome!

So whoever is writing these shows and making these kids believe its awesome when its not is sad. I want todays kids to have the same experience I did, I want them to feel the exhilaration of the crowd when they roar for you, I want them to be out on the field at retreat and feel what its like to have the crowd cheer for you again. This only happens in finals why?

To the kids and young men and woman marching today, You are amazing! I can't begin to tell you how much I appreaciate you and I hope this is/has been a great experience fr you as it was for me. It's something that'll always be with you...always!

I know this is just a forum and what I say won't change anything but still, bring back pleasing the crowd for the love of God! For me, I don't care about whatever is choosen to enchance Drum Corps musically or how you use it, just make it innovative and make me wanna stand up and yell!! Lets just make it about letting the kids have fun and the crowd apprectiating that fun!

Done. Whew.

yawwwwwwwwwwwwn. same old rant post. lol. "i know more, i did it better, the poor kids, its not good unless i like it.. " Blah blah blah. Thanks for the refreshing post.

[GeneralTsoChicken]

The crowd changed.

Completely different demographics of the crowd now compared to 70's-80's.

Well, you could argue, that it used to be about 'the community'. Corps were vigorously loyal to the communities that supported them.

Now we have corps listed as being from Madison, but technically are from Indiana. Or a corps from Rockford, Illinois---that one year had NO ONE from Illinois in it.

When the loyalty switched from the community to the arts, the programming changed drastically. Your support (monetarily) is coming from a completely different group of people.