Bob984 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I have a "peeve" with the wording on one of the new judging sheets. On the music side, they list brass, percussion, and "design". In a seminar with one of the "guru's" once, we were discussing shows, and he was constantly using the word "design", even when I was making musical points. Finally, I stopped the individual and indicated to him that the word "design" does not appear in any musical book, and that music is composed and/or arranged, not "designed". (He was offended) I went further by stating that "design" was a word instituted by visual people.....you first had "drill designers", then supposed "show designers", etc.. The argument got colorful when I told him that it was my opinion that a truly legendary drum corps show, IMO, was built around great musical arrangements/compositions that were so good that people would be thrilled to hear the music even in a standstill setting, as the quality and excitement of the musical program could stand on it's own. In an activity which is attempting to align itself as a musical art form and to continue to gain acceptance within the musical community at large, naming a musical caption using the word "design" is certainly going to confuse many a musician outside of the activity. I do think you could argue, though, that some music is so poorly composed and/or arranged that it does sound "designed" (lol). Ironically, the subcaption titles are appropriate... composition and achievement. That will be an interesting one, too......as I see shows that might be well-performed (ie achievement level is ok), but the arrangements couldn't get any choppier and lack musical continuity.....yet that hardly ever shows up in the score. This is a further example of visual individuals in the activity pushing their terminology/idealogy and influence a bit too far. GB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mondocane1970 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I have a "peeve" with the wording on one of the new judging sheets. On the music side, they list brass, percussion, and "design". In a seminar with one of the "guru's" once, we were discussing shows, and he was constantly using the word "design", even when I was making musical points. Finally, I stopped the individual and indicated to him that the word "design" does not appear in any musical book, and that music is composed and/or arranged, not "designed". (He was offended) I went further by stating that "design" was a word instituted by visual people.....you first had "drill designers", then supposed "show designers", etc.. The argument got colorful when I told him that it was my opinion that a truly legendary drum corps show, IMO, was built around great musical arrangements/compositions that were so good that people would be thrilled to hear the music even in a standstill setting, as the quality and excitement of the musical program could stand on it's own. In an activity which is attempting to align itself as a musical art form and to continue to gain acceptance within the musical community at large, naming a musical caption using the word "design" is certainly going to confuse many a musician outside of the activity. I do think you could argue, though, that some music is so poorly composed and/or arranged that it does sound "designed" (lol). Ironically, the subcaption titles are appropriate... composition and achievement. That will be an interesting one, too......as I see shows that might be well-performed (ie achievement level is ok), but the arrangements couldn't get any choppier and lack musical continuity.....yet that hardly ever shows up in the score. This is a further example of visual individuals in the activity pushing their terminology/idealogy and influence a bit too far. GB Hi, take a look on dci.og for an entry on thursday july 28th its titled prototype judging trailed at TOC shows. meaning of course mufreesboro. Your a great writer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillmanSop06 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I have a "peeve" with the wording on one of the new judging sheets. On the music side, they list brass, percussion, and "design". In a seminar with one of the "guru's" once, we were discussing shows, and he was constantly using the word "design", even when I was making musical points. Finally, I stopped the individual and indicated to him that the word "design" does not appear in any musical book, and that music is composed and/or arranged, not "designed". (He was offended) I went further by stating that "design" was a word instituted by visual people.....you first had "drill designers", then supposed "show designers", etc.. The argument got colorful when I told him that it was my opinion that a truly legendary drum corps show, IMO, was built around great musical arrangements/compositions that were so good that people would be thrilled to hear the music even in a standstill setting, as the quality and excitement of the musical program could stand on it's own. In an activity which is attempting to align itself as a musical art form and to continue to gain acceptance within the musical community at large, naming a musical caption using the word "design" is certainly going to confuse many a musician outside of the activity. I do think you could argue, though, that some music is so poorly composed and/or arranged that it does sound "designed" (lol). Ironically, the subcaption titles are appropriate... composition and achievement. That will be an interesting one, too......as I see shows that might be well-performed (ie achievement level is ok), but the arrangements couldn't get any choppier and lack musical continuity.....yet that hardly ever shows up in the score. This is a further example of visual individuals in the activity pushing their terminology/idealogy and influence a bit too far. GB Despite the soundness of your point... Likely, if they're outside the activity, they won't notice or care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 A few years ago I addressed an issue similar to this with a few drum corps/marching band "designers" (both musical and visual). I inquired as to why show music is becoming so disjointed within the marching arts. What they told me indicated a possible huge philosophical shift concerning how programs are constructed. All of them referenced the Movies as an analogy for current marching show construction (where the music is incidental and just enhances the visual action on the screen; and therefore music is not intended to stand on it's own apart from the visual). One of the drill designers even went so far to say that it would be best if the visual aspect was written and edited first, then plug in musical motifs written to enhance the motion (exactly like music is written and added to a completed movie). In a related issue, I have also spoken with a few movie music composers who informed me that they have to completely rearrange their music to record CD Soundtracks because to lift the music from the movie (as it appears in the movie) would also come across very disjointed. So, if this connection is true and many customized marching shows are being created in this visual first manner, it certainly explains the reason musicians cannot enjoy the marching show music apart from the visual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I stopped the individual and indicated to him that the word "design" does not appear in any musical book, and that music is composed and/or arranged, not "designed". I agree with you about this. I'm not sure what this new Music Design category is supposed to be (we won't know until the documentation of the judging system is released early next year -- at least that's what has been promised), but what it makes me think of is use of A&E. The sound engineering, the samples and patches used on the synth, the speaker choice and placement, the equipment choice, and the mixing are all "sound design" choices. If that's what the new caption means, then that could be a good or a bad thing. If it puts synth usage on par with brass and percussion, then it's going to encourage more synth usage. If it's more about sound balance between the electronic and acoustic elements, then that could be a place where some DCP concerns over amp levels get scored. But then, on the latter, I'm not sure that a major rewrite of the Ensemble sheet ought to be required to just address a balance issue. We won't really know anything until DCI releases the new "judging system" details in early 2012, assuming they follow through. Even then, we may not really understand the implications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 All of them referenced the Movies as an analogy for current marching show construction (where the music is incidental and just enhances the visual action on the screen; and therefore music is not intended to stand on it's own apart from the visual). One of the drill designers even went so far to say that it would be best if the visual aspect was written and edited first, then plug in musical motifs written to enhance the motion (exactly like music is written and added to a completed movie). Interesting info. Personally, as much as I thrill to great visuals, I don't think shows are nearly as effective unless it works exactly the other way around, with great music driving the visuals. That may be one of those things that just depends on how one's brain works or what background you have. Certainly I would not be surprised to hear the visual staff think in these terms and advocate this view, and the musical staff to have the opposite POV, with some members of each preferring the reverse priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandman28 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 tomato tamato... its all judging the compositional value. I arrange and compose for schools and could care less if its called design, arranged, or composed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I agree with the OP. For my taste, the music captions should look as follows: Brass: comp, perf; Percussion: comp, perf; and music ensemble: mus, combi. Comp = composition (judging the construction of the arrangements, the demand on the performers, the artistry) Perf = Performance (judging the ability of the performers to master the material in a musical manner) Mus = Musicianship (judging the artistry of the combined brass, percussion, and pit. Also looking at balance/blend & timing issues) Combi = Combination (judging the combination of musical elements coming from drums, brass, pit, and the overall construction of the entire musical arrangement. Any arrangement issue that hurts the musicianship of the total music ensemble would be addressed here.) I also wish to add to one of the posts that brought up show design and the choppy arranging styles. I always felt that today's designers were trying too hard to cram a lot of material into 12 minutes. This added to the fact that visual design has been placed on a higher pedestal than music and it's no wonder music has suffered. It is true that when motion pictures are made, the first thing done (after scripting and story-boarding) is that the movie is shot, which primarily consists of acting, dialog, scene shots, and the like. The music soundtrack is not added until the composer can look at various cuts of the movie, often receiving different scenes at different times. The composer then sync his/her music to the movie. But motion pictures are first and foremost about acting, drama, dialog. Drum & Bugle Corps was originally about drums and bugles (musical instruments). The music came first, and the visual was then constructed to work with the music, with the emotion and speed and timing of the music, and with its colorful elements. So the visual design in drum corps was similar to the music design in making motion pictures. But the opposite has been happening in DCI. Some show designers have handled the music just like they do in the movies, and in drum corps that can be a HUGE mistake. Not to mention that such mistakes can cost the activity. It can chase away fans and it does nothing to promote an interest in the activity. Can this method be successful? Sure. And perhaps it already has been, but 7 to 8 times out of 10 I bet you it produces JUNK! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other Mike Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Can this method be successful? Sure. And perhaps it already has been, but 7 to 8 times out of 10 I bet you it produces JUNK! I agree. The handful of shows that DID acomplish this are few and far between. However, they "almost " made up for the rest of the trash, well, not almost, well, I liked them but it wasn't worth sitting through say 10 chopped up shows to enjoy 2. Hey, I sound like Hank Kimble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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