How amps and electronics saved drum corps by changing it.

[skywhopper]

So, it really isn't about anything other than producing and promoting events that are sustainable. Lineups and venues should be continually tweaked in order to maximize profitability in order to return the most cash back to the most corps.

Well, you're leaving out the show sponsors, who must also make money in order to keep putting on the shows, but I agree with this idea as stated. But I'm not sure how you get from that to supporting the TOC series, which is designed to maximize the income of the TOC corps (I'm assuming they are taking more than the standard WC payment, and that they are splitting what would otherwise be the sponsor's revenue as well) at the expense of competing show sponsors.

I don't see how this could possibly be better than just splitting those eight corps across three or four other shows, where they could attract more ticket buyers to shows shared with other corps.

[danielray]

Well, you're leaving out the show sponsors, who must also make money in order to keep putting on the shows, but I agree with this idea as stated. But I'm not sure how you get from that to supporting the TOC series, which is designed to maximize the income of the TOC corps (I'm assuming they are taking more than the standard WC payment, and that they are splitting what would otherwise be the sponsor's revenue as well) at the expense of competing show sponsors.

I don't see how this could possibly be better than just splitting those eight corps across three or four other shows, where they could attract more ticket buyers to shows shared with other corps.

Well... the corps that aren't at the TOC shows are doing other shows, making money. These parallel shows have been pretty good sized shows (up to 14 corps at some). I can imagine that corps at these shows might do a bit better in terms of merchandising sales than when paired with TOC corps.

If non-TOC corps are playing roughly the same number of shows, earning the same amount of money per show as they usually would, and possibly even doing better on merchandising sales.... what is the issue?

Look at the TOC shows.... most of these are shows that are sponsored by one of the TOC corps. Any additional revenue that would be taken from the sponsor cut would be one of the corps within the 8, so they are essentially taking a more collective approach to the series.

[Tom Brace]

Kids today gravitate towards Drum corps because it resembles their HS marching program.

I remember a day when we got excited about drum corps because it was DRUM CORPS. It was something that we could not obtain on the football field with our HS band program. We sat in awe of the corps because they played Bugles and they had power that could not be matched by HS band instruments.

Sad how times have changed.

And you changed as well, don't forget. Super Summer Marching Bands does not resemble their own HS Marching Band. We can have the fight again with BOA fans, but they haven't convinced me that one of their bands can make semis. Not one. But, I would point to the past few years of SOA. They are more like a premier marching band than any other corps I can think of currently...and they are a lock for Top 12 right now. DCI's homage to legacy fans, many of whom on here don't go to shows anymore is at odds with trying to cultivate new fans who don't know drum corps from squat and you end up spending 20 min. (too long in this ADHD world we now live in) to try to explain to them what this is...when it simply is Super Summer Marching Bands. Everyone gets that. Even Steve Young (yeah, Former SF QB who happened upon Finals in Pasadena with his kids)got that. And I would love 300 more fans with his disposable income.

[Jeff Ream]

You miss my point... I do not think using the G8 corps to entice people to come is a forthcoming manner in which to hook people in... They will ultimately be disappointed. I think using all 27 corps... Aren't there 27 not 23? I could be wrong but anyway using all of them is the way to promote people to come...

Of course I want all 23 or 27 or whatever... In fact I wish there were more all I am saying is this isn't the way to promote the entire activity except to woo new MM's.

I think if you show them all levels of drum corps...it's better for the kids and the corps.

I know a kid here who went to a show last year in our area. Crown and Phantomscared him off. However he saw Surf and said "hey, i could start there, and maybe in time work myway up".

as opposed to 2000 kids in IL seeing the top 8, when maybe 25 of them have a legit shot at making it.

[Jeff Ream]

DCI is essentially a show promoter for really good marching bands. Nothing more, nothing less. It should have absolutely no mission or purpose other than the shows. So, it really isn't about anything other than producing and promoting events that are sustainable. Lineups and venues should be continually tweaked in order to maximize profitability in order to return the most cash back to the most corps.

There were loads of large shows that no TOC corps attended. 100% of that revenue went to non-TOC corps.

How is this an example of TOC coming at the expense of non-TOC corps?

for starters...look at the difference in pay. I mean it doesnt take a genius to see how non TOC corps get the low end of the totem pole there.

[Tom Brace]

for starters...look at the difference in pay. I mean it doesnt take a genius to see how non TOC corps get the low end of the totem pole there.

Jeff. This is not just a TOC phenomenon. In DCM for instance, placement in the previous year's DCM championships determined your pay for the following season's DCM shows. So, placement has always made a difference. The TOC corps pretty much have a lock on the Top 8 spots except for that Minn./Ind. based corps I would have liked to see Madison in the mix, but I believe that is philosophical point more than anything. I was surprised to see Cavies taking part after all the early season rumblings by their Board, etc. But, the changes made to the format must have calmed them enough to participate.

[audiodb]

DCI is essentially a show promoter for really good marching bands. Nothing more, nothing less. It should have absolutely no mission or purpose other than the shows.

Step 1 - remove preservation/growth of the drum corps activity (or anything that supports the other corps) from DCI's mission.

So, it really isn't about anything other than producing and promoting events that are sustainable. Lineups and venues should be continually tweaked in order to maximize profitability in order to return the most cash back to the most corps.

Step 2 - segregate haves from have-nots.

There were loads of large shows that no TOC corps attended. 100% of that revenue went to non-TOC corps.

Step 3 - convince us that segregation is better for both haves and have-nots. Lie if you have to.

How is this an example of TOC coming at the expense of non-TOC corps?

Where to start?

1. As you will be first to point out, when you segregate the top X corps from the bottom X corps within a ranking hierarchy that isn't changing, the top X corps will draw better than the bottom X corps.

2. TOC shows have a special financial deal that pays far more money to the top corps.

3. TOC corps are getting preferential treatment by being granted the privilege of hosting events with these hand-picked lineups, while 9-16 corps must make do with ordinary lineups.

4. Are lower WC corps even allowed to host shows anymore? Among Mandarins, Teal Sound, Jersey Surf, Cascades and Pioneer, it seems like only one of these five corps gets to host a show in any given recent season.

So drop the lies. This segregation is not for the benefit of the 9-23 corps.

If you really wanted to do this right, you'd at least address the above four issues and make it look like the 9-23 corps actually are making more $$$....and keep it that way just long enough to get their buy-in on whatever the next iteration of the power-grab proposal is. Then, you can proceed with....

Step 4 - pull the financial rug out from under the have-nots.

Think this is paranoia? Look back at how the open-class situation has evolved. This method has already been applied to maximize revenue for the haves (world-class) at the expense of the have-nots (open-class).

[Tom Brace]

Step 1 - remove preservation/growth of the drum corps activity (or anything that supports the other corps) from DCI's mission.

Step 2 - segregate haves from have-nots.

Step 3 - convince us that segregation is better for both haves and have-nots. Lie if you have to.

Where to start?

1. As you will be first to point out, when you segregate the top X corps from the bottom X corps within a ranking hierarchy that isn't changing, the top X corps will draw better than the bottom X corps.

2. TOC shows have a special financial deal that pays far more money to the top corps.

3. TOC corps are getting preferential treatment by being granted the privilege of hosting events with these hand-picked lineups, while 9-16 corps must make do with ordinary lineups.

4. Are lower WC corps even allowed to host shows anymore? Among Mandarins, Teal Sound, Jersey Surf, Cascades and Pioneer, it seems like only one of these five corps gets to host a show in any given recent season.

So drop the lies. This segregation is not for the benefit of the 9-23 corps.

If you really wanted to do this right, you'd at least address the above four issues and make it look like the 9-23 corps actually are making more $$$....and keep it that way just long enough to get their buy-in on whatever the next iteration of the power-grab proposal is. Then, you can proceed with....

Step 4 - pull the financial rug out from under the have-nots.

Think this is paranoia? Look back at how the open-class situation has evolved. This method has already been applied to maximize revenue for the haves (world-class) at the expense of the have-nots (open-class).

Great points here. And it is as it always has been...competition based, survival of the fittest, both on and off the field. Sure, there's a degree of cooperation, but, it is competition which is the root of why many corps have shuttered (think Night Express as a good example here). In drum corps, competition, even unhealthy competition is what has driven corps to overspend, allow some members privileges (read tuition waivers, less discipline when they go "shopping" at a school, etc.) If you add to the bottom line in the competitive arena, you have a different standard across the board. That's at the corps level and within some, if not many corps. But, isn't that reflective of the rest of society? Why should drum corps be any different.

[danielray]

Step 1 - remove preservation/growth of the drum corps activity (or anything that supports the other corps) from DCI's mission.

Step 2 - segregate haves from have-nots.

The only difference between, as you say, the haves and the have nots.... is one simply did more of what it takes to have more resources or financial means.

The only think stopping any corps out there from having any less means than any other is themselves.

Step 3 - convince us that segregation is better for both haves and have-nots. Lie if you have to.

Ever seen what the merchandising numbers are for a non-TOC corps when there are no TOC corps at a show? They tend to do pretty well.

1. As you will be first to point out, when you segregate the top X corps from the bottom X corps within a ranking hierarchy that isn't changing, the top X corps will draw better than the bottom X corps.

2. TOC shows have a special financial deal that pays far more money to the top corps.

Which is standard for any performing group out there on a tour. Some groups are making more than others. This is reality.

3. TOC corps are getting preferential treatment by being granted the privilege of hosting events with these hand-picked lineups, while 9-16 corps must make do with ordinary lineups.

This is a privilege earned through competitive placement. If other corps are interested... place higher. To do this will likely mean they will have to step up their revenues.

4. Are lower WC corps even allowed to host shows anymore? Among Mandarins, Teal Sound, Jersey Surf, Cascades and Pioneer, it seems like only one of these five corps gets to host a show in any given recent season.

Not a real question.

Think this is paranoia? Look back at how the open-class situation has evolved. This method has already been applied to maximize revenue for the haves (world-class) at the expense of the have-nots (open-class).

Life is not equal. Compensation is not based on amount of work done... but there are many other factors. This is a good lesson for kids to learn.

Open Class is a distinct track that is a specific choice an organization makes based on either their objectives or stage in development.

Also, you need to consider that, apart from a few notable exceptions, drum corps is not really a place where kids learn to march or play instruments, they already arrive with these skills.

Drum corps is a VERY inefficient and VERY expensive way to teach young kids fundamentals of music or movement, and schools today do a much better job of this. It is this point that has lead to the decline in numbers of corps in Open Class (and the old A)... as they really don't have the same purpose they used to. This is actually a good thing.

[JulesBry]

I know I won't change your mind but here are the words to "A house is not a home"

A House Is Not A Home lyrics

A chair is still a chair

Even when there's no one sitting there

But a chair is not a house

And a house is not a home

When there's no one there to hold you tight,

And no one there you can kiss good night.

A room is still a room

Even when there's nothing there but gloom;

But a room is not a house,

And a house is not a home

When the two of us are far apart

And one of us has a broken heart.

[From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/b/burt-bacharach-lyrics/a-house-is-not-a-home-lyrics.html ]

Now and then I call your name

And suddenly your face appears

But it's just a crazy game

When it ends it ends in tears.

Darling, have a heart,

Don't let one mistake keep us apart.

I'm not meant to live alone. Turn this house into a home.

When I climb the stair and turn the key,

Oh, please be there still in love with me.

I am especially drawn to the final verse when watching the house coming together and am in hopes that she is there and still in love with him!

As was noted elsewhere, this has nothing to do with "The Beat My Heart Skipped", and at the very least, you are expecting your audience to know the lyrics to the #71 hit of 1964. The lyrics are beautiful, but that doesn't equal connection to the audience unless the music is equally beautiful. Some like it, many don't.

Perhaps if the show had been titled, "A House Is Not a Home", it would have been a much more moving experience over all. As it is, there seem to be two or three different themes bandied about among half a dozen songs with minimal connections to one another. That's not the definition of effectiveness, in my book.

Shows don't have to have titles or themes to be good, but if a title or theme is given, the show had better follow the theme. That's just basic common sense (at least for me, it is).