oldbandguy Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 OK, I'll answer the first question.....NO He was asked to do this about a week ago and as he is always first to help out any "kid" in drum corps or the activity in general, he said yes. Please remember that giving back is a large part of his persona. He also gave up time with his own corps,Crossmen< to do this as they were not at the show. Well please pass on my (our) thanks. and tell him it's time for Dave to have the Cadets drumline (or better yet, the Bluecoats) on for the Top 10 list again. That was COOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancerLegend Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I think we all "think" we smell something fishy when Al Chez judged, and his corps tops the charts. How many people know Al plays with Paul Shaffer in the CBS Orchestra? Tom Float should have judged percussion - now that would have been an interesting panel. We all know - the earlier you go on, the more room the panel needs with their marks. The old philosophy as a judge was - you have an obligation to save the highest mark for the last corps competing. Reason being - on any given night - one DCI can topple another. Case in point - BD in 1988. Technically speaking, judges could only have rewarded BD with 9.9 in any caption/sub-caption, but there were 4 more corps competing that evening. As for having the audience have a "say" in the scoring - what a huge can of worms. Many people attend to support a corps of their chosing. Will that translate into bias? What about the real popcorn eater, do they really know the difference between triple tonguing while running, and playing loud in place? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 As for having the audience have a "say" in the scoring - what a huge can of worms. Many people attend to support a corps of their chosing. Will that translate into bias? What about the real popcorn eater, do they really know the difference between triple tonguing while running, and playing loud in place? Probably not, but I bet he knows the difference between something that inspires him to jump out of his seat and something that bores him to tears. That sounds like a decent way to explain "General Effect" in my book, but others will (and do) disagree. Personally, I know the corps that I've liked in the past, but I'm also pretty good at giving credit elsewhere when it's due. I don't claim to be able to judge all captions simultaneously, but I think I (and most fans) can give a fair shot at GE. Fans shouldn't be the only judges, but they should have at least a slight impact on the proceedings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bari Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Probably not, but I bet he knows the difference between something that inspires him to jump out of his seat and something that bores him to tears. That sounds like a decent way to explain "General Effect" in my book, but others will (and do) disagree. Personally, I know the corps that I've liked in the past, but I'm also pretty good at giving credit elsewhere when it's due. I don't claim to be able to judge all captions simultaneously, but I think I (and most fans) can give a fair shot at GE. Fans shouldn't be the only judges, but they should have at least a slight impact on the proceedings. Although I do agree that the fan needs to be connected with... There is NO way that with stands full of local parents, friends and such that the crowd can or will be trusted with the outcome. Sorry, but unless we can have ALL shows somewhere neutral with no one connected with ANY corps in ANY way in the stands, this will not work out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Although I do agree that the fan needs to be connected with... There is NO way that with stands full of local parents, friends and such that the crowd can or will be trusted with the outcome. Sorry, but unless we can have ALL shows somewhere neutral with no one connected with ANY corps in ANY way in the stands, this will not work out! And I agree. I don't want the crowd to be the ONLY judge, but at least a part of the proceedings. Why can't they be trusted with part of the GE scores? Certainly some will be biased, but I think most fans are pretty fair minded when it comes to seeing something awesome. I can't imagine people sitting on their hands when a corps touches a nerve simply because they want "their corps" to win! Those people just need help. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bari Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 And I agree. I don't want the crowd to be the ONLY judge, but at least a part of the proceedings. Why can't they be trusted with part of the GE scores? Certainly some will be biased, but I think most fans are pretty fair minded when it comes to seeing something awesome. I can't imagine people sitting on their hands when a corps touches a nerve simply because they want "their corps" to win! Those people just need help. :-) The TOP 4 corps this season are seperated by less than 2 points... Do you propose that the crowd is given more points than that to play with? I say there is NO number that could be allowed to the crowd seeing as Cadets and BD were .05 apart the other day, where could this actually be beneficial, other than allowing people in the stands particiopate in the outcome. I understand the draw and the wanting this... I just also see it as wrong, even though many in the stands are musically trained and drum corps saavy... some are not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 The TOP 4 corps this season are seperated by less than 2 points... Do you propose that the crowd is given more points than that to play with? I say there is NO number that could be allowed to the crowd seeing as Cadets and BD were .05 apart the other day, where could this actually be beneficial, other than allowing people in the stands particiopate in the outcome. I understand the draw and the wanting this... I just also see it as wrong, even though many in the stands are musically trained and drum corps saavy... some are not. So we can't allow even .05% of the score to be determined by the sheer emotional impact it has on a crowd? Is that really your claim? That seems more than a small bit cynical to me. I'd say the crowd determining 5% of the score isn't too much to ask, and it might encourage corps to think more carefully about how they communicate to their paying audience members. I don't see how that could be a bad thing--especially if every corps (theoretically) has a home show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancerLegend Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 So we can't allow even .05% of the score to be determined by the sheer emotional impact it has on a crowd? Is that really your claim? That seems more than a small bit cynical to me. I'd say the crowd determining 5% of the score isn't too much to ask, and it might encourage corps to think more carefully about how they communicate to their paying audience members. I don't see how that could be a bad thing--especially if every corps (theoretically) has a home show. Jules.....I would strongly oppose - ans resent - and audience getting 5% - a whooping 5 points? Wow.....please think about that. How many years did it take for Color Guard to be actually a score in the performance? The late 1980's or later? Who could argue that Guard ALWAYS had an impact - but their score was a measley 2 points - and not added to the corps score. It's a very tough argument to allow the audience to have a say in the score. Now - maybe there is a separate award - with simply a vocal chant that could be awarded. In 1979, the Bridgemen would have won hands down in Birmingham based on audience appeal !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Jules.....I would strongly oppose - ans resent - and audience getting 5% - a whooping 5 points? Wow.....please think about that. How many years did it take for Color Guard to be actually a score in the performance? The late 1980's or later? Who could argue that Guard ALWAYS had an impact - but their score was a measley 2 points - and not added to the corps score. It's a very tough argument to allow the audience to have a say in the score. Now - maybe there is a separate award - with simply a vocal chant that could be awarded. In 1979, the Bridgemen would have won hands down in Birmingham based on audience appeal !!! Then perhaps we have a difference of philosophy. And that's fine. It takes all types. However, as a performer, I know that connecting with an audience is one of the most fulfilling experiences in the world. However, if corps are exclusively worried about impressing judges and can theoretically receive no credit for impressing the audience, then we have created a system that may penalize a corps for seeking "one of the most fulfilling experiences in the world". Philosophically, I have a problem with that. After all the time these kids spend practicing, they may think that winning a competition or even a championship is worthwhile, and they may be right. But I have to believe that if they can win the competition or championship AND experience that sacred connection to the audience, they will truly have something worth remembering. I just want to make sure that we have a system designed to produce those kinds of results, not a system designed to produce the results we've been getting for the past few years. If that means giving the audience 5% of the score, then so be it. If you have another way of making it happen, I'm all ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseyboy Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 (edited) Thoughts NOW ?? Looks like a good call. Edited August 15, 2011 by Jerseyboy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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