oldbandguy Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 THANK YOU to all of the corps that displayed the American flag at the 2011 DCI World Championship awards ceremony. I am thankful for all public events, especially those involving our nation's youth, that care enough to have the American flag as part of their presentation. So, THANK YOU again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contreuph Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I agree with you that most threads on here should be about music, marching, tonal vs. a-tonal, block-slip picture vs. a-symmetric interpretive. But sometimes an issue of deep magnitude does arise. Of course some traditions are goofy (since you marched corps I am sure you can name a few); some traditions are counterproductive (those that include hateful hazing); however some traditions are rather sacred and they should be kept sacred while passing them down from the dinos to the young pups. From Valley Forge through the Civil War, from the Second World War until this very moment, the American Flag has represented the inherent right of freedom within every human being in which a multitude of people have sacrificed their lives to uphold in this unique experiment called the United States of America. And asking people to honor that Flag with a simple code is neither trivial or dumb; and the really important part here is that while all of this debate is going on, the Flag which represents the ability for us to engage in this debate still flies strong. I agree to a certain extent about honoring the flag. But remember that this country (and the flag) represents freedom. As much as it may SEEM like a bad thing, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is such. And remember, the Canadian flag represents just as much to them as our flag does to us, under that assumption, since they are from Canada, they should be allowed to represent their flag in any manner. It's not like they were trying to give a huge "$%(^ YOU" to the USA, it was them representing their corps. Stu, I'm not calling you out, (I think talking with you in a civil manner actually restores some faith in this forum) but tradition of the flag, just like other traditions, have to change to fit the new era. If I seem off base, please tell me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Uh huh. How's that working out so far? IMHO if you see ignorance, teaching is a far better response than b#######. Having an honor guard at DCI retreat is a tradition. Corps are attempting to maintain it. Interesting that the same people who are so quick to bemoan all the changes in DCI are the same ones complaining that a sabre is being held at an improper port arms. A better response might be organizing some veterans who know the proper protocol to do an ad hoc inspection / protocol lesson in the lot. HELP things get better. I bet the kids would be honored to have actual military vets show them the ropes.Maybe they'd even learn WHY it matters. We had a rather large contingent of Marines (aka "The Commandant's Own" U.S. Marines Drum and Bugle Corps) present that I'm quite sure could have explained it to them and "shown them the ropes". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) I agree to a certain extent about honoring the flag. But remember that this country (and the flag) represents freedom. As much as it may SEEM like a bad thing, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is such. And remember, the Canadian flag represents just as much to them as our flag does to us, under that assumption, since they are from Canada, they should be allowed to represent their flag in any manner. It's not like they were trying to give a huge "$%(^ YOU" to the USA, it was them representing their corps. Stu, I'm not calling you out, (I think talking with you in a civil manner actually restores some faith in this forum) but tradition of the flag, just like other traditions, have to change to fit the new era. If I seem off base, please tell me. a) This situation is occurring within the United States, not Canada, so the issue of debating other country's flags is a rather moot point as it applies to the U.S. Flag Code within the boarders of the United States. b) The corps who presented the U.S. colors at DCI Finals were all attempting to respect the Flag; the issue at hand is a lackadaisical view by some to trivialize both the historical significance of the U.S. Flag as well as the sacred respect that should be shown to the U.S. Flag (by U.S. citizenry). c) While land line phones can be replaced by cell phones, and the word gnarly is an archaic slang term from the 1980's, it is the responsibility of wise old sages to instruct the overly confident youth in certain sacred ideals that should be passed down from generation to generation. The instruction of U.S. citizens to respect a certain code toward the U.S. Flag is one of those ideals. While there are warts and imperfections within the history of the U.S. (no human reach for ideal can be perfect) it is a fact that no other country in the history of the world besides the U.S. has ever come as close to reaching for the ideals of honoring the inalienable rights granted to all humans by Divine providence. This fact, and it is a fact, must be presented down from generation to generation; and the code of respect, honor, and duty toward the U.S. flag (which is the symbol standing for those ideals) must not wane. Edited August 22, 2011 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contreuph Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Understood, and I do agree with you. My point I guess, is that sometimes there is too much emphasis on minute things like the flags, when the last time I checked, this forum was about Drum Corps. The flag issue is moot in my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Understood, and I do agree with you. My point I guess, is that sometimes there is too much emphasis on minute things like the flags, when the last time I checked, this forum was about Drum Corps. The flag issue is moot in my opinion. Almost there; what you now do not seem to realize is the powerful historical significance the military, the VFW, plays within the structure of American Drum Corps. Once you see that very significant connection you will begin to realize why this is an extremely important, as well as touchy, subject which certainly should be discussed within this confines of this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contreuph Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Almost there; what you now do not seem to realize is the powerful historical significance the military, the VFW, plays within the structure of American Drum Corps. Once you see that very significant connection you will begin to realize why this is an extremely important, as well as touchy, subject which certainly should be discussed within this confines of this forum. i think you should read the new topic I just posted. I have done a lot of studying and reading on the history of drum corps. I understand the traditions and values of drum corps. And yes, there should be an American flag with each corps. Does the height of the flag matter? No. Should the Canadian flag (or whatever country the corps is from) be feature more prominently? I think so. It's their country, so why not. I am may be twenty-one, but as I stated, I know a lot about drum corps, and I respect it. However, since we are in a new age, we have to accept the new additions to tradition. It's code, not law, therefore there shouldn't be a big hullaballoo about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 i think you should read the new topic I just posted. I have done a lot of studying and reading on the history of drum corps. I understand the traditions and values of drum corps. And yes, there should be an American flag with each corps. Does the height of the flag matter? No. Should the Canadian flag (or whatever country the corps is from) be feature more prominently? I think so. It's their country, so why not. I am may be twenty-one, but as I stated, I know a lot about drum corps, and I respect it. However, since we are in a new age, we have to accept the new additions to tradition. It's code, not law, therefore there shouldn't be a big hullaballoo about it. Your new topic will be interesting; and I commend you for starting it as a new thread. And I know that you do not believe me, but sometime between now and when you are in your 60's the sacred aspect of this issue will more than likely hit you; and then you will see what the big hullaballo is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contreuph Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Your new topic will be interesting; and I commend you for starting it as a new thread. And I know that you do not believe me, but sometime between now and when you are in your 60's the sacred aspect of this issue will more than likely hit you; and then you will see what the big hullaballo is all about. ) I'm sure I will find something to gripe about, but (not to sound like a narcissist) I know for a fact that I will more subjective than a lot of people on here. I guess it comes with the territory of being a Sociologist/Psychologist, but that is how I always view things, from both sides of the spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbg Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I would like to point out to you this section of the United states Code concerning "RESPECT" of the flag... "No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor. (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property. (b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise. © The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free. [b](d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.[/b] (e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way. (f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling. (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature. (h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything. (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown. (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart. (k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning." So take a look at this video of the 1980 Olympic Hockey team... http://www.youtube.com/user/goldmedalstrategies?blend=7&ob=5#p/u/7/OvzTIbJaGWo ..argueably one of the most famous/inspirational moments in Olympic Sports history for the United States, during a time of the Cold War when our Hockey defeated the Soviet Union......The Gold Medal by that hockey team Inspired our entire country......Take a look at around 22 seconds of this film......Clearly it is in directed Violation of the United States Code concerning Respect for the Flag......but at the same time is one of the most poignant moments of those Olympic (or maybe any) Olympic games regarding the United States Olympic teams. This video shows a worse Violation than anything a drum corps did this past weekend.......now I am not posting this to show any "disapproval" of Jim Craig or USA Hockey.....but to make a point in this debate.......Why was this instance with Jim Craig so Inspirational to so many people......and what a drum corps did so horrible? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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