Stu Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) Two wrongs don't make a right. If, and only if, there is evidence that an advantage was obtained by the breach of the rule, should the advantage obtained be taken away. If there was no advantage achieved, no innocent kid was "beaten in competition" by the breach of the rule. The penalty then remains the problem of those who are most culpable...the adults who made it happen. Appropriate sanctioning of the organization - not the kids- responds to concerns of presumptive advantage and to deterrence. Interesting concept you have here. It is wrong to penalize the team because of the act of one individual. So, in your way of seeing fairness a football player who grabs a face-mask on the winning touchdown should just be penalized as an individual, and the team should not receive a penalty plus the having the winning touchdown taken away because it was the individual, not the other innocent players on the team, who cheated. Try running that idea by the NCAA and get back with us with their response. Edited October 15, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsjazz Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Interesting concept you have here. It is wrong to penalize the team because of the act of one individual. So, in your way of seeing fairness a football player who grabs a face-mask on the winning touchdown should just be penalized as an individual, and the team should not receive a penalty plus the having the winning touchdown taken away because it was the individual, not the other innocent players on the team, who cheated. Try running that idea by the NCAA and get back with us with their response. Not at all. In corps world, the equivalent of a face mask would and should earn a points penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Not at all. In corps world, the equivalent of a face mask would and should earn a points penalty. But, you said that punishing all of the innocent members for the actions of the individual is "wrong", and a points penalty still punishes the innocent, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsjazz Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 But, you said that punishing all of the innocent members for the actions of the individual is "wrong", and a points penalty still punishes the innocent, correct? Of course, but there is a differnce between a draconian penalty and one that is well known, fair and regularly enforced in a consistent manner. Appropriate penalties are proportionate to the offence and accepted by the particpants as being reasonable, not oppressive Our dicussion has been interesting, but it has run it's course. Have a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Interesting; I have the '74 video ready to pop into the DVD player. Which member is he and how does he carry the entire corps to the 4th place finish as the most important player in the entire corps? If what I'm told is correct, not only was Jeff Kievet the featured soprano soloist for Muchachos....he also arranged half their brass book in '75. Obviously, no single person carries a 128-member corps to their final result all by themselves. But you asked for the "most important member of any corps in any season", not the "only important member"....and someone responded with a viable answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 We must all bow down to the great Stu! He knows all and is always right. He will have the last word until we believe that he is right. I say anoint him now and let him run DCI and DCA! BTW Jeff K was the MAIN reason that Muchachos were where they were...soloist and arranger. Talk with him and maybe he can give you insight into that season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancerLegend Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 We must all bow down to the great Stu! He knows all and is always right. He will have the last word until we believe that he is right. I say anoint him now and let him run DCI and DCA! BTW Jeff K was the MAIN reason that Muchachos were where they were...soloist and arranger. Talk with him and maybe he can give you insight into that season. Come on Keith - Muchachos were more than Jeff K - and I am a big fan of his. I think if you check, Larry Kerchner also played a big role in their brass arrangements. During this time in DCI - the top 5 were offering completely different styles - Madison, SCV, BD, 27th, Hawthorne. The 1974 DCI Finals at Cornell helped propel the Muchachos - the crowd ate them up and they responded. 1975 saw the resurgence of 27th - they won DCI West and DCI East - beating everyone in the country. BD won World Open, Madison was undefeated - scorching the earth at CYO Nationals. SCV and Muchachos were so close to trouncing everyone. Keivet was central to the Muchachos Latin theme - but not their only showman. And while not agreeing with Stu - he's got his opinions just like you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) We must all bow down to the great Stu! He knows all and is always right. He will have the last word until we believe that he is right. I say anoint him now and let him run DCI and DCA! Resorting to childish nana-nana-boo-boo; yep, that will definitely get you a passing grade in Speech and Debate 101. Edited October 20, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 If what I'm told is correct, not only was Jeff Kievet the featured soprano soloist for Muchachos....he also arranged half their brass book in '75. Obviously, no single person carries a 128-member corps to their final result all by themselves. But you asked for the "most important member of any corps in any season", not the "only important member"....and someone responded with a viable answer. Got it. If a person is a featured dancer and helps write the color guard choreography that person is by definition "THE" most important member; or if a snare soloist also writes a portion of the drum book that person is by definition "THE" most important member. I was unaware of that fact, so thank you for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Anyone want to refresh my memory with Crossmen as they were hit in the regular season IIRC. Never was sure how why that affected them at DCI Week. 76, and I'm not sure they were allowed to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.