BRASSO Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) I don't think they'll miss but 10-11 is a real possibility. Hell with as good as corps are this summer 12 is possible I agree on this early assessment as well. Somewhere between 7th- 11th seems likely at this juncture ( but this could change, of course ). However I don't see any chance of The Cavaliers not performing on Finals Night in Indy. Edited July 12, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tariq.shah Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Food for thought: It's basically mid-July, the Cavaliers were four-pointed by Bluecoats last night, who themselves are sitting around 7th place. I'm afraid their season will end with a whimper, not a bang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadorj Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 The Cavaliers have a long proud history and this year will be no different. They may be down in the placement early on this season but you can guarantee that they will be in the hunt to place in the Top echelon just like all the other great corps. This corps doesn't give up and they will make the push into Indy to insure that they are seen as one of the best. Having watched the great Cavalier corps of the '60's (and rough years of the '70-'80) they endured and shown all that they can climb back to the top - Champions. Don't be surprised if this corps makes the Top 6. It's in their (green) blood! Best to the Cavies! -J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Detweiler Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) I personally don't think that Cavies will miss finals, but there are comments on here that rub me the wrong way a little, no disrespect intended. To say things like "DCI won't let that happen" or to imply that politics will keep them in finals is, I think, a slap in the face to the judging community. Cavies will end up where they deserve to end up as will all the corps. We all need to stop thinking with our hearts and start looking at the criteria the corps are being evaluated on and be realistic. Corps have good years and bad years. Cavies have had an incredible run. They are having a tough year by their standards so far but let's not imply that they will be handed a finalist spot just because they are the Cavaliers. That is slighting them, the corps that they compete against, as well as the integrity of the judging community as a whole. I have been judging for 30 years at various levels and I am here to tell you folks. We are not the political boogy men people try to make us out to be. We evaluate performances based on the criteria on the back of the sheet...period, with no concern for wether the uniform is green, blue, white or maroon. (Or any other color for that matter) Just my 2 cents. Dan Edited July 12, 2012 by Dan Detweiler 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 The Cavaliers have a long proud history and this year will be no different. -J The Cavaliers won the Minneapolis Regional last season at this time, before BD and the Cadets caught them a few weeks later. That said, no matter where The Cavaliers ultimately place this year at Finals, their " long, proud history " remains fully intact. Completely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmFlag61 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) Quote from a Madison Alum: "Lets not forget, these are the Cavaliers we're talking about...I don't think there's a snow balls chance in you know where that the Cavies are going to curl up in fetal position, do you? " Edited July 12, 2012 by AmFlag61 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyrp Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 [quote name='Dan Detweiler' timestamp='1342104774' We evaluate performances based on the criteria on the back of the sheet...period, with no concern for wether the uniform is green, blue, white or maroon. (Or any other color for that matter) Dan Dan I appreciate your comments and am glad to hear you have such great integrity! I don't feel people are slighting the judges or how they do their jobs. Judging an art form is a tough business and there is no easy way to pick a winner that everyone will agree on. I too don't believe that politics would keep judges from making the right call, but there have been some recent events (creation of G8 super powers) that to me raise questions of fairness and entitlement! That's not to say the judges won't call things right, but that a corps that's been uber consistent may be given more room to get their show together than say a lower tier corps. Example- year in and out SCV starts slow but seem to get benefit of the doubt as to being to clean up. Maybe the achievement side starts too high, but would the same consideration be granted to say Pacific Crest? Point is, no matter how you slice it and use the descriptors on the back of the sheets it still comes down to opinion. Judges do great workout it's always going to involve a judgment by an individual!! Just my thoughts! Thanks for your 30 years of service- A TRULY AMAZING FEAT!!! Wes P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecoats88 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Food for thought: It's basically mid-July, the Cavaliers were four-pointed by Bluecoats last night, who themselves are sitting around 7th place. I'm afraid their season will end with a whimper, not a bang. I see some flaw in your logic. 1st - Bluecoats are at worst sitting in 6th place based on Madison's Spread versus Phantom. (at last meetings Phantom beat Madison by 4.65, Bluecoats beat Madison by 3.25, Phantom beat SCV by 1.15 which we can use to infer SCV may be .25 ahead of Bluecoats. although based on this I think SCV & Bluecoats will be neck and neck for 5th in Minneapolis) 2nd - Bluecoats just made a ton of changes and picked up .75 on Crown from Monday to Wednesday 3rd - Cavaliers were only .3 behind Madison at their last meeting Throw Boston & Spirit into the mix with Madison and it looks like a 4 way fight for the 7-10 spots with Crossmen, Blue Stars, and Blue Knights looking like contenders for the 11th & 12th spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Detweiler Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Dan I appreciate your comments and am glad to hear you have such great integrity! I don't feel people are slighting the judges or how they do their jobs. Judging an art form is a tough business and there is no easy way to pick a winner that everyone will agree on. I too don't believe that politics would keep judges from making the right call, but there have been some recent events (creation of G8 super powers) that to me raise questions of fairness and entitlement! That's not to say the judges won't call things right, but that a corps that's been uber consistent may be given more room to get their show together than say a lower tier corps. Example- year in and out SCV starts slow but seem to get benefit of the doubt as to being to clean up. Maybe the achievement side starts too high, but would the same consideration be granted to say Pacific Crest? Point is, no matter how you slice it and use the descriptors on the back of the sheets it still comes down to opinion. Judges do great workout it's always going to involve a judgment by an individual!! Just my thoughts! Thanks for your 30 years of service- A TRULY AMAZING FEAT!!! Wes P Wes, I won't lie, those calls are difficult to make sometimes. However, they are made and I think those calls are made more often then people realize. When you are looking at recaps make sure you are looking at subcations as well as the big picture. Often there are decisions that go unnoticed when you dig a little deeper. You are right though when you say it all comes down to a person's opinion. That is why judge training and experience are so important. I think the biggest thing I see in regards to young judges is that they haven't learned the value of a tenth of a point and that that value changes based on the numeric value of a given subcaption. They seem to have plenty of content knowledge but little in the way of numbers management. Once again, just my opinion. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I personally don't think that Cavies will miss finals, but there are comments on here that rub me the wrong way a little, no disrespect intended. To say things like "DCI won't let that happen" or to imply that politics will keep them in finals is, I think, a slap in the face to the judging community. Cavies will end up where they deserve to end up as will all the corps. We all need to stop thinking with our hearts and start looking at the criteria the corps are being evaluated on and be realistic. Corps have good years and bad years. Cavies have had an incredible run. They are having a tough year by their standards so far but let's not imply that they will be handed a finalist spot just because they are the Cavaliers. That is slighting them, the corps that they compete against, as well as the integrity of the judging community as a whole. I have been judging for 30 years at various levels and I am here to tell you folks. We are not the political boogy men people try to make us out to be. We evaluate performances based on the criteria on the back of the sheet...period, with no concern for wether the uniform is green, blue, white or maroon. (Or any other color for that matter) Just my 2 cents. Dan Dan, No disrespect .. but the judging community needs to be slapped around from time to time. That's what a head judge is for, and I haven't seen was that has done any slapping since about 1985. They will NOT end up where they deserve. Based on their tradition and clout .. they will end up 2-4 places higher than they deserve. If the trend continues next year .. THEN and only THEN will they fall in line where they should be. This is in no way a slap or DIS to the Cavies either. They are having some rebirth pains. Some corps survive massive changes in leadership and staff ... some don't. I see the staff and members are doing everything they can to fix this show and try to make it work ...... but that doesn't mean it's working just yet. It might not work come finals night. Who knows. All I know is .. they are working their tails off like always. I applaud them for their efforts and will continue to do so ... but that has no bearing on the politics of DCI and it's judging system or judging community. I can almost guarantee the Cz crew will be judging prelims or Semi's .. that will ensure their placement. It's just how it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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