13strokeroll Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 The inconsistency exists to discourage talk of slotting. Tongue-in-cheek noted; but perhaps the intervention to hide the perception of slotting is only increasing its appearance. We wouldn't want to perpetuate inconsistEncy and waNing perception, even though they are those that pay the bills!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13strokeroll Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 What? For as complex and nuanced as a drum corps show is, DCI judging is mind-bogglingly consistent. Whenever I go to a show, I always impress my friends by being able to predict each score to usually within a point... before the corps even perform, just based on previous scores. They always think it's some kind of conspiracy. I don't think any other judged art for this complex gets scored this consistently. Its closest neighbor, marching band, certainly doesn't Because you believe you can predict a numerical value (score) indicates you truly don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tez Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Unless I'm mistaken, I don't recall using the phrase "conspiracy." And far more complex assessments of far more complex endeavors have been proven to be far more repeatable and reliable. There is a symbiotic relationship between judging and performance, one influences the other, and both suffer when one's flaws are accepted. More important than numbers are placements and inter-relations; and I am very disappointed in this year's results. Variation is "smoothed" over time to yield predictable results, and the failure of this year to do so indicates a serious flaw, which over other endeavors with subjective assessment have time and again proven to be a failure of the measuring system itself. Please name one. And as for predicting results..... you try it sometime..... how often does a corps score more than a couple points more or less than the previous show? Not often. Yes, I know that is a silly game I play, but it truly does amaze my friends, and illustrates the consistency with which both the corps perform, and the judges score. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13strokeroll Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Please name one. And as for predicting results..... you try it sometime..... how often does a corps score more than a couple points more or less than the previous show? Not often. Yes, I know that is a silly game I play, but it truly does amaze my friends, and illustrates the consistency with which both the corps perform, and the judges score. Then you are misinformed. Because that variation is fairly common, most visibly in roughly the 1st week in July, usually intra-panel. Numbers are meaningless,it is the spreads to watch. Check out the Knights' page. They chart the season. It's simple and not to be taken as hard science, but an obvious change occurred between 8 to 16, be it correction, compensation, or whatever. Especially when you see the fluctuations head to head. Top 5, I believe you can be accurate within 2 pts because they are historically going to be that close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13strokeroll Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Please name one. Aesthetic inspection stations in manufacturing processes can be found significant within 4 parts per million. That's subjective assessment of a perceived aesthetic quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lone ranger Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Unless I'm mistaken, I don't recall using the phrase "conspiracy." And far more complex assessments of far more complex endeavors have been proven to be far more repeatable and reliable. There is a symbiotic relationship between judging and performance, one influences the other, and both suffer when one's flaws are accepted. More important than numbers are placements and inter-relations; and I am very disappointed in this year's results. Variation is "smoothed" over time to yield predictable results, and the failure of this year to do so indicates a serious flaw, which over other endeavors with subjective assessment have time and again proven to be a failure of the measuring system itself. Do you have data to back up these statements? Especially as it realates to the past ten years of drum corps. where has this happened and can you show it consistently consistent at any point.? The judging seems the same. In fact the sheets might be worded differently. But many aspects are the same. And most importantly many judges are the same. So mostly seems the same to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13strokeroll Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) Do you have data to back up these statements? Especially as it realates to the past ten years of drum corps. where has this happened and can you show it consistently consistent at any point.? The judging seems the same. In fact the sheets might be worded differently. But many aspects are the same. And most importantly many judges are the same. So mostly seems the same to me. The comment above is a good start, especially looking at head-to-head comparisons, most notably during the events immediately prior to Minneapolis for corps in the 8-14 range, but others as well. Edited July 20, 2012 by 13strokeroll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Aesthetic inspection stations in manufacturing processes can be found significant within 4 parts per million. That's subjective assessment of a perceived aesthetic quality. I'm glad drum corps competitions aren't manufacturing processes. I'm more glad we're seeing less slotting. Each show, each night, judge it as independently as you can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 At this point in the season, which are more inconsistent, the judges, or the corps performances? Discuss? Thanks, Mike The DCP second guessers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) The judging seems the same. In fact the sheets might be worded differently. But many aspects are the same. And most importantly many judges are the same. So mostly seems the same to me. I agree. This year has all the look and feel of most years so far in overall placements with the exception of 3 or 4 Corps at most.In Major League Baseball, by contrast, there are a lot of so called " have " and " have not " teams regarding resources, both financial and otherwise, available to the roughly 28 teams. That said, there is lots of movement up and down the final standings from year to year over the last 20 years in MLB. Drum Corps have very little movement in the similar roughly 28-41 number of Corps that compete at Quarterfinals. There is usually less than 4 out of the first 20 or so that change placements more than 2 placement positions up or down from the previous year. I can't think of a competitive enterprise where there is such less overall movement in placement from year to year from positions 1- 25 than in Drum Corps. That said, I like going to the shows to watch and be entertained, and the level of entertainment among the Corps from 1-41 positions does vary from year to year, imo, despite any degree of substantive placement shifts from year to year among the various Corps. Edited July 20, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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