HoltonH178 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hi guys, I promise to flesh out my thoughts on this a little further, but I thought this thread was far overdue. DCI is seeing the groups in the bottom half of finals perform and arguably even some semifinals programs that easily would have been scored in the top 6 ten years ago. Comparing groups who have fairly consistently been in this grouping (i.e. Boston Crusaders, Glassmen, Spirit, Madison, etc.) and the two corps duking it out for #12 (Crossmen and Blue Stars) it seems crystal clear to me that the demands of producing the same results in this arena of our activity have increased greatly. This is a wonderful problem to have. Just a few thoughts to kick off the discussion. This is, IMO, the most competitively consequential arena within our activity. There is a world of difference in the experience for the members of the #12 team and the #13 team. I think DCI ought to do more to increase interest in this level of competition, if for no other reason than to increase souvie sales for corps whose demands increase every single year even if the corps is not pushing to move up in the numbers. What corps are "on the bubble" for finals? I used to think that the Glassmen had perfected the art of placing between 10 and 12, but the last two years have shown that if such a thing is possible it has not yet been accomplished. Which corps do you see as potentially moving up or down from Saturday night's razor edge? Which corps need to improve which sections in order to make finals, or perhaps stay in finals and challenge the bracket above? It wasn't terribly long ago that Carolina Crown was a regular face in this crowd. What can, say, a group like the Academy do--specifically--to improve their standing? Many groups in this arena struggle with establishing a creative identity. Are there any groups doing a particularly strong or weak job of this? Troopers and Crossmen seem to have an excellent understanding and ability to translate this onto the field; part of the reason that I believe the Blue Stars have been struggling recently is, IMHO, that they haven't established an independent creative identity since their breakout success in 2008. The Glassmen put on a show this year, "Glassworks," but if you put the corps in a different uniform I doubt many people would instantaneously recognize the group the way that people recognize Bluecoats, Carolina Crown, Phantom Regiment, Santa Clara Vanguard, etc. What are your thoughts about the storm that surrounds the #12 slot in Drum Corps International? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daave Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 A year from now, this topic and the placements may have a whole new meaning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornandsoccer Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 A year from now, this topic and the placements may have a whole new meaning. I hope not. Having been through this bracket before, I'll say two things. 1. It's tough, and a lot of pressure. Nobody wants to be in the years when your corps dropped out of finals, especially if they've been in for the past few years. Definitely more pressure than I felt at another corps later when we were fighting for a medal. 2. It's fun. It pushes you. Drum corps is all about getting better, but having that visceral motivation of potentially ending your season a day earlier pushes you even harder. I think that the level of performance of all corps has risen quite a bit in the last 5-10 years, and I'd have to say that the fight to get into finals is part of that across the board movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) It was rough not making finals in 08 after being in the 12 spot at all the regionals. The competition is so close back there. Closer than the scores say. And it's gonna be different corps every year pushing for that spot. And being out of finals doesn't mean as much negatives as it used to. It used to be, "that corps is in trouble, they dropped out of finals" Now it's, "well they just got beat by a better corps" Yeah if you are in the top 6, and drop out. Maybe there is some trouble. But there are a lot of great corps. Usually just missing on design just a little bit. Edit to add: The 2009 Crossmen I would say is a better corps than 2008. More talent, lots of returning vets. Yet we dropped to 16th. Show design had a lot to do with it. (And our darn capes!). It doesn't take much to move up or down in this bracket anymore. Edited October 10, 2012 by kickhaltsforlife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barifonium Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 This may be a half-###ed observation but I feel like this area of Drum Corps get a more even spread when it comes to talent across the board. Ergo, an equal number of very talented, the sorta talented and the adequately talented. They're famous enough to draw people from other states/countries, but not so famous that they get as much of the best possible talent those other states can offer, and end up instead with the best possible talent their home state has to offer (minus the ones that go to higher placing corps). Thus being the case, what is required of the staff is education that encompasses/aids all talent levels, though the phrase "you're only as strong as your weakest link" especially applies. It takes a lot to get one or more of these categories of talent/education/show design to get a corps (back) into finals. I'll refrain from commentary re: each corps in the semis-category but the above is a general synopsis of its present condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Mo Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 My idea needs a little fleshing out too, but something where the audience votes to send a non-finalist corps to perform at finals might encourage lower-scoring corps to engage the audience. Jersey Surf 2012 comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I don’t really know where the OP is going with this and disagree with a fair bit As of late, I often feel 12th is the feel good spot and the back story, hype, corps history beats out what’s on the field, more so if they are fighting a normal finalist for that last spot making 13th sometimes a punishment for a corps that’s losing momentum. It feels scripted 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 My idea needs a little fleshing out too, but something where the audience votes to send a non-finalist corps to perform at finals might encourage lower-scoring corps to engage the audience. Jersey Surf 2012 comes to mind. No thanks, none of that "text your vote to..." stuff for me. Peace, Fred O. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesiscorps Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Please understand, I mean no disrespect to the OP, but IMO, your question assumes that an organization, staff, membership, etc., actually controls the outcome of a totally subjective activity. At the end of the day, the tenths (or less) of a point that separate the corps within this block (or any other block for that matter) are not the result of a tangible factor stemming from the organization that results in a specific outcome. The fact is that even if corps "x" has the best everything (design, performance, talent, staff, money, etc), as a judge, I can still determine that I'll award corps "y" a higher score than "x". Scores are awarded to corps based upon established criteria, but it is completely expected (and accepted) that one judge's informed opinion about a program/performance on any given night is just as credible as another judge's informed opinion about the same program/performance on the same night. No element of any organization has the ability to impact the performance of another organization (like a defensive line in football affecting an opposing offensive line's performance), so we obviously leave it up to the discretion of a trained, assumably neutral party. That's where the final outcome is determined, regardless of what an organization, staff, or performer does. (Admittedly, even in a fundamentally more objective based activity, there's always a contrasting outlier example that someone can point to... can anyone say Packers vs Seahawks?) Anyway, I completely understand your premise, but I also accept that no level of discussion online, (or action within an organization) can change the fact that competitive outcomes will never be controlled by anything but subjective opinion. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 A year from now, this topic and the placements may have a whole new meaning. yup 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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