N.E. Brigand Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 What about "Public Domain" music? You still need a letter from the publisher stating the same... There are no official "publishers" of works in the public domain. Now, anyone who reprints an old work could call himself a publisher... for instance: Because I feel that, in the Heavens above, The angels, whispering to one another, Can find, among their burning terms of love, None so devotional as that of "Mother," Therefore by that dear name I long have called you— You who are more than mother unto me, And fill my heart of hearts, where Death installed you, In setting my Virginia's spirit free. My mother—my own mother, who died early, Was but the mother of myself; but you Are mother to the one I loved so dearly, And thus are dearer than the mother I knew By that infinity with which my wife Was dearer to my soul than its soul-life. See! I hereby declare myself a publisher of Edgar Allen Poe's 1849 poem, "To My Mother". Do you need my permission to repost it? No you do not. Did the Buccaneers need anyone's permission to arrange and perform Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture (composed 1880)? No they did not. And even if they sought it, no one has the authority to write a letter granting them that permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 There are no official "publishers" of works in the public domain. Now, anyone who reprints an old work could call himself a publisher... for instance: See! I hereby declare myself a publisher of Edgar Allen Poe's 1849 poem, "To My Mother". Do you need my permission to repost it? No you do not. Did the Buccaneers need anyone's permission to arrange and perform Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture (composed 1880)? No they did not. And even if they sought it, no one has the authority to write a letter granting them that permission. wrong,............Hal Leonard Publishing Handles 1812 Overture,.........go to ASCAP title search and see for yourself,.............Example: our corps holds rights to arrange and perform Grand Old Flag and Stars and Stripes, both in public domain, but a letter from the publisher was required before DCI would allow us to perform them in exhibition,..........really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Wrong.... Hal Leonard Publishing handles 1812 Overture.... Go to ASCAP title search and see for yourself.... Example: our corps holds rights to arrange and perform Grand Old Flag and Stars and Stripes, both in public domain, but a letter from the publisher was required before DCI would allow us to perform them in exhibition--really! Maybe Hal Leonard Publishing sells nice clean copies of the score or the parts, or maybe they own the rights to a substantially original arrangement of the 1812 Overture, but they do not own the rights to the piece itself. Anyone who wants to may arrange, perform, and record a public domain work for free and without getting anyone's permission. Just as the Edgar Allen Poe estate can't sue me if I choose to publish a collection of his poems, neither the Tchaikovsky estate, nor Hal Leonard Publishing, nor ASCAP could sue Buccaneers for performing the 1812 Overture. If DCI and DCA really are requiring corps to get phony "permission" from companies who have no such authority, that's a shame and a waste of the corps' time and money. And since you cite ASCAP, here is what they say: Public domain, like sampling, is also a complex area in the licensing world. Public domain works (as they relate to music) are compositions that are not under copyright or whose term has expired. While a composition may have fallen into the public domain, an arrangement of that composition that possesses sufficient originality may be considered a new composition and thus, protected by copyright.If you decide to record your own version of a public domain composition, you would not need to secure a mechanical license or pay royalties, unless you are using a copyrighted arrangement of that song. A simple rule of thumb — if you used sheet music to learn it, then you will need to secure a license. You can often find the basic copyright information on the sheet music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Maybe Hal Leonard Publishing sells nice clean copies of the score or the parts, or maybe they own the rights to a substantially original arrangement of the 1812 Overture, but they do not own the rights to the piece itself. Anyone who wants to may arrange, perform, and record a public domain work for free and without getting anyone's permission. Just as the Edgar Allen Poe estate can't sue me if I choose to publish a collection of his poems, neither the Tchaikovsky estate, nor Hal Leonard Publishing, nor ASCAP could sue Buccaneers for performing the 1812 Overture. If DCI and DCA really are requiring corps to get phony "permission" from companies who have no such authority, that's a shame and a waste of the corps' time and money. And since you cite ASCAP, here is what they say: having personally gone through the process myself,...........I must ask you,...have you ever gone through the process of proving a piece is in the public domain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Having personally gone through the process myself, I must ask you,have you ever gone through the process of proving a piece is in the public domain? If it was composed before 1923, it's in the public domain. But no, you got me. I've never been asked to undertake such a ridiculous task. You've said that DCI demands proof that something is in the public domain, and I believe you. I'm just saying you're being scammed. I'm sorry that you've been put through such a process, because a publishing company like Hal Leonard has no such authority. (In fact, I think that Hal Leonard is apparently sending out such letters makes them less of an authority.) No letter from a publishing company can actually prove that a work is in the public domain. So I maintain that this process is a foolish waste of everyone's time and money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 If it was composed before 1923, it's in the public domain. Not sure about music but some created works can have the copyright renewed before it expires. As for having to prove music is in the public domain. Haven't gone thru the process but would not be a wise move on DCI/DCAs part to accept someones word that their music is in the public domain without documentation. Thinking of Monty Pythons "wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more". Yep, probably a CYA but a prudent CYA. Ot better yet Judge Judy "someone TOLD you that it was in public domain... NOT good enough sir". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 having personally gone through the process myself,...........I must ask you,...have you ever gone through the process of proving a piece is in the public domain? Gary, one question comes to mind here... If/when Shadow 7 reappears on this forum, will you need permission to re-post the "One-Note Samba" lyrics? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Not sure about music but some created works can have the copyright renewed before it expires. you are correct, it works for music too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) If it was composed before 1923, it's in the public domain. But no, you got me. I've never been asked to undertake such a ridiculous task. You've said that DCI demands proof that something is in the public domain, and I believe you. I'm just saying you're being scammed. I'm sorry that you've been put through such a process, because a publishing company like Hal Leonard has no such authority. (In fact, I think that Hal Leonard is apparently sending out such letters makes them less of an authority.) No letter from a publishing company can actually prove that a work is in the public domain. So I maintain that this process is a foolish waste of everyone's time and money. look here this is the kind of thing you need Edited November 1, 2012 by Gary Matczak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Gary, one question comes to mind here... If/when Shadow 7 reappears on this forum, will you need permission to re-post the "One-Note Samba" lyrics? actually the thought crossed my mind to re-dedicate that one,...........lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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