Skeptical Parents

[Stu]

ALL schools are expensive nowadays buddy.

Wrong, 'buddy'. Even today many community colleges are still 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of major universities; and I can even point you to small private colleges where you can work 40 hours per week on campus in exchange for your tuition. It is just that those places are probably beneath your 'wants'. Here is a clue for ya from an old fart prophet: "You can't always get what you want, but if you try real hard, you can get what you need."

Edited April 24, 2013 by Stu

[fsubone]

Wrong, 'buddy'. Even today many community colleges are still 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of major universities; and I can even point you to small private colleges where you can work 40 hours per week on campus in exchange for your tuition. It is just that those places are probably beneath your 'wants'. Here is a clue for ya from an old fart prophet: "You can't always get what you want, but if you try real hard, you can get what you need."

Yes, and most of those small college are little liberal arts schools. Not somewhere where I can get my music education degree. Or a degree in engineering, or physics, or math. But if you're looking for an English degree, go right ahead.

[fsubone]

Bull! I paid for community college entirely with the jobs I worked at. What you are talking about is entitlement to go to expensive schools.

Schools have gotten expensive. When I started college, my tuition was $2,000 a semester. That can be worked off. Now, five years later, tuition is $4,000 a semester. That's much harder for a student to work off. State colleges are getting screwed on tuition costs.

Then again, lots of things I'm sure are much more expensive now than they were when you were in school. Gas, food, school, cars.

[N.E. Brigand]

...or defaulted government loans to companies like Solyndra. Anytime a person or entity defaults on a government loan the tax payers get hosed; and that is a fact.

Wikipedia says that Solyndra will end up costing U.S. taxpayers about $400 million. Would I rather that money not have been lost? (Or spent on drum corps?) Sure! But the Iraq War cost the taxpayers about $4 trillion, or 1,000 times as much, for no better return that I can see. (Here's a handy graph of U.S. debt.)

As for college costs: "Since 1985, the overall consumer price index has risen 115% while the college education inflation rate has risen nearly 500%." (Source)

[Stu]

Yes, and most of those small college are little liberal arts schools. Not somewhere where I can get my music education degree. Or a degree in engineering, or physics, or math. But if you're looking for an English degree, go right ahead.

Schools have gotten expensive. When I started college, my tuition was $2,000 a semester. That can be worked off. Now, five years later, tuition is $4,000 a semester. That's much harder for a student to work off. State colleges are getting screwed on tuition costs.

Then again, lots of things I'm sure are much more expensive now than they were when you were in school. Gas, food, school, cars.

Granted tuition, gas, food, etc... have gone up, but so have wages at jobs which can still facilitate going to college. A person can still today get a higher education without getting a loan, they just might not get to initially go to where they 'want'. And it is this entitlement expectation of automatically being able to get what you want via 'instant gratification' that I have real problem with in our current culture. You certainly can get a math degree today at a small inexpensive college without going to MIT or a major State University; you certainly can get a music degree at a small inexpensive college without going to Julliard or a major State University. And if your grades are good enough at those smaller institutions where you get your math or music degree then you can qualify for a scholarship to go to MIT for that Masters in Engineering degree or go to Julliard that Masters in Music.

[Stu]

Wikipedia says that Solyndra will end up costing U.S. taxpayers about $400 million. Would I rather that money not have been lost? (Or spent on drum corps?) Sure! But the Iraq War cost the taxpayers about $4 trillion, or 1,000 times as much, for no better return that I can see. (Here's a handy graph of U.S. debt.)

As for college costs: "Since 1985, the overall consumer price index has risen 115% while the college education inflation rate has risen nearly 500%." (Source)

We are talking 'loans' not the politics of war (that is another matter). The Tax Payers should not have to cover 'loans'; that is the point here.

[Stu]

That's much harder for a student to work off.

Awwwww, tears come to my eyes that you have to work harder to pay for things; sniff, sniff, blow my nose.

[fsubone]

Granted tuition, gas, food, etc... have gone up, but so have wages at jobs which can still facilitate going to college. A person can still today get a higher education without getting a loan, they just might not get to initially go to where they 'want'. And it is this entitlement expectation of automatically being able to get what you want via 'instant gratification' that I have real problem with in our current culture. You certainly can get a math degree today at a small inexpensive college without going to MIT or a major State University; you certainly can get a music degree at a small inexpensive college without going to Julliard or a major State University. And if your grades are good enough at those smaller institutions where you get your math or music degree then you can qualify for a scholarship to go to MIT for that Masters in Engineering degree or go to Julliard that Masters in Music.

I'm at a mid-level state university, after turning down a very good music college because of the price. I am working my way through college. I know exactly what it's like. I don't care about getting everything right now, but I'm not going to spend my hard-earned money at a community college to build up to getting a degree from a good school. I'm already saving for grad school, because I know that the extra degree will mean a better job and higher pay once I'm out. Since you're not in my exact situation, I will gladly thank you to not tell me what to do with my education and finances.

[fsubone]

Awwwww, tears come to my eyes that you have to work harder to pay for things; sniff, sniff, blow my nose.

So, I'm assuming you work for the Senate Finances Committee or are head of the FDIC? Yes, I am working very hard for everything I have, because that's how I was taught to live my life. I also learned those values from drum corps. My first job was working at a grocery store, because I was in high school. I didn't really learn any life lessons except saving my money, but i already knew that one. I learned far more in DCI than I have in my jobs, except the teaching ones.

[Stu]

I'm at a mid-level state university, after turning down a very good music college because of the price. I am working my way through college. I know exactly what it's like. I don't care about getting everything right now, but I'm not going to spend my hard-earned money at a community college to build up to getting a degree from a good school. I'm already saving for grad school, because I know that the extra degree will mean a better job and higher pay once I'm out. Since you're not in my exact situation, I will gladly thank you to not tell me what to do with my education and finances.

So, I'm assuming you work for the Senate Finances Committee or are head of the FDIC? Yes, I am working very hard for everything I have, because that's how I was taught to live my life. I also learned those values from drum corps. My first job was working at a grocery store, because I was in high school. I didn't really learn any life lessons except saving my money, but i already knew that one. I learned far more in DCI than I have in my jobs, except the teaching ones.

Not telling you what to do in your own life; just saying that higher education can still be accomplished without going into debt with student loans. Hopefully you also realize that while you are getting sort of snarky mad at me, these two postings of yours actually support my point. You chose to 'work' your way through a mid-level state school and thus sacrificed the higher cost of a supposed 'better' school. Some cannot afford the mid-level but can only start at the CC level then working their way to the mid or upper level; which I am saying is far better than going tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt for immediate gratification. And while drum corps is great, and I also had the same experience that you had, you did not have to go to drum corps to learn these lessons; they could have been learned through many other outlets.