Why are fans so rude and immature?

[BRASSO]

As a member of BK 2006, I feel like stressing how true this is. We got booed when we beat Crown for 7th place at finals... Considering how much we LOVED our show, and how much DCP seemed to hate it; OH MAN did that feel good!!! ;-)

If so, then why do we read the angst from people in Corps of shows audiences don't particularly like on their booing of placement ? Its got to be one or the other it seems to me. Either booing has no effect on MM's and staffs, ( or it motivates them in show design and performance ) or it does negatively effect them, and they naturally get angry and bitter about it. Well,.. which is it ?

Edited June 24, 2013 by BRASSO

[normy diploome]

I don't think the BD staff sits around and thinks, "What kind of show can we do that hits all the points on the sheets?" Most of the latest concepts have been in their heads for years. And they SHOULD have the sheets in mind when designing their show. It would be a complete disservice to their members not to. The kids are there to perform AND compete.

This poster manifests a major misunderstanding of how the sheets of formulated, who proposes rules changes officially and behind the scenes, what the discussions are really like at the rules congresses and judges training sessions, and how and when people like Wayne Downey, Scojo, Scott Chandler and crew form their show ideas. As one who has attended and participated in many past DCI rules congresses as a voting member and as someone who has been to many a judging seminar/webinar and who knows each of the names mentioned personally for several decades, I could not disagree with you to a greater degree. BD did not arrive at their legacy without a strategy and some fore planning, much more than you give them credit. They know the sheets, they help create the sheets, they have a very strong voice in how the sheets are interpreted and applied.

[BRASSO]

I think the problem is that a lot of fans don't understand how exactly the judging system works, and how it is that BD's shows achieve such high scores, while ones they deem just as well performed and more entertaining do not.

Actually, I 'm not as jaded and cynical of the national coast coast to coast audiences as you are. I believe that most attendees at national DCI Drum Corps shows are sufficiently saavy enough to realize that the judges look at these Corps in competition thru a different prism than they do. They may not understand all the nuances of the judging system ( even judges have wholly different intepretations amongst themselves on certain caption criteria included on the sheets, lets be honest about it ), but they know what appeals to them personally and how that stacks up to the appeal levels of others before them in the show. The vast majority of national fans unconnected directly to Corps in competition seem quite able to me to reecognize the superior talent performance levels of a Corps that finishes ahead of other Corps whose shows had perhaps more appeal to them personally. You ( fsubone )appear to have little appreciation for the discerning abilities for many of the people that attend these DCI shows. You are defining a small, minority segment of the fanbase in your caricature,in my opinion. The vast majority of attendees at shows are repeat customers. They are not the drooling, mouth breathing Neanderthals that you depict. Most are quite capable of differentiating between judging quality excellence and audience appeal excellence. Most defer to the judges on placements, and defer to themselves what they like. I suspect that the booing heard in Stanford was a very small, tiny segment of that audience. Perhaps this was the audience that you are referring too here.

Edited June 24, 2013 by BRASSO

[Heath H]

I think a very small percentage of corps members give a darn about DCP.

We don't care too much about it because we understand it's predominantly made up of corps alumni and radical band parents, so everyone has biases. With that said, we still read what everyone says. All of us have smart phones and hours to kill every night on the bus after a show.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Heath H

[Heath H]

8. All in all, they would rather win and get booed than lose and be cheered.

I can't speak for other corps, but this does not apply for Crown. I know that if Crown had won and been booed, we would not feel a victory at all. Number one goal: play a show that hits people in the gut and changes people's lives. If that puts us in 1st, awesome! If that puts us in FOURTH, that's cool.

[BRASSO]

Funny, you bring up effect. I say about 75% of the Drum Corps/Band community (including educators with degrees) have no clue on what general effect is and it really does need to be explained better to people.

Would you be surprised to learn that if we brought in all the current DCI judges that judge a GE caption of any kind and asked them to define " General Effect ", that we would have a multiplicity of descriptions of the vital component on the sheets, some at odds with one another ? Well, its true.

Perhaps this " education " of the fanbase might include the " education " that judges oftentimes disagree on the most fundamental of definitions in the current judging captions themselves. I have found in my experience that most well educated current marchers (and some well educated fans) are not even sufficiently " educated " and grounded in this current awareness reality. So yes, " education " of the judging sheets and how differently the terms are defined and applied might indeed be in order and help shed some light on a rather frustrating for many enterprise.

Edited June 24, 2013 by BRASSO

[Jeff Ream]

I think the problem is that a lot of fans don't understand how exactly the judging system works, and how it is that BD's shows achieve such high scores, while ones they deem just as well performed and more entertaining do not. That's at least always been my read on the situation. I don't think DCI releases the judging rubric to the general audience, so no one except staff members and judges know what really constitutes a score. Especially when it comes to the content and GE captions. Everyone can see and hear visual and musical dirt, and a mess guard can be seen from space. But content and GE are much more subjective and intangible to the people not looking at the sheets or designing the shows I think

honestly, knowing whats on the sheets, I'm not sure the judges know it either. The new sheets are a lot more performer based in verbiage, but application still seems to be very heavy on design

[kickhaltsforlife]

Ive come to the conclusion that quite a few judges don't have the slightest clue what they are supposed to be judging. Note I'm not saying all. But half of them are still stuck on the older sheets... and probably a quarter just shouldn't be judges.

[mr1138]

If so, then why do we read the angst from people in Corps of shows audiences don't particularly like on their booing of placement ? Its got to be one or the other it seems to me. Either booing has no effect on MM's and staffs, ( or it motivates them in show design and performance ) or it does negatively effect them, and they naturally get angry and bitter about it. Well,.. which is it ?

I'm not sure I completely understand your point... those two things aren't mutually exclusive. When you perform in (and learn to LOVE) a show that is dark and dissonant, and others don't seem to get it, it is vindication when the judges give you credit anyway. We all knew that we had some fans out there who LOVED our show as much as we did, and we were performing for them... not for the ones who just want ear candy and are immature enough to boo when they don't get it.

Yes the booing DOES motivate both show design and performance, especially when performing a show that is supposed to be dark and abrasive. But I don't agree with your choice of words... "angry and bitter," because that is such a negative attitude, and nobody I knew in BK had a negative attitude towards the situation. To know that we worked our butts off and earned what we were working for, it was really just a sense of satisfaction that the judges sided with us in the end. Nothing against Crown, who I actually really like... it just felt good to know that the fans who booed didn't get what they wanted, because they were being ridiculous and immature and quite frankly didn't deserve to!

[Jeff Ream]

I follow Philly teams, so I'm familiar with booing...though we usually boo our own.

Look, you can try and clamp down and make drum corps the super happy shiny place where everyone is happy, and no one boos.

Then I'll laugh at you and tell you to join reality.

I don't condone it, but people will boo. Question...Madison still gets the boos when their score is announced treatment, not as much as they did in the 90s, but it still happens...why aren't people freaking out then?

People pay money to see something, and if they are unhappy with the results, they may boo. Cool or not, it's human nature, and while we all like to show proper decorum and common courtesy, well, let's be real...common courtesy is kind of a dying art in the US anyways. I just today I held a door open for several people at Panera...not one thank you. I even smiled, and to the last one I said "you're welcome".

When you combine the arts, which have passionate fans, and scores, which leads to passion as well, people will do what they do. To try and police it is assinine, and I'm sorry, but if fans booing the judges results hurts some 22 year olds widdle feelings, grow the #### up. You'll face far worse in the real world, hell, your staff probably said worse to you on the field during the summer.

The sooner people realize all of the above, and stop trying to make drum corps the "everybodys a winner" activity, the better off we'll all be.

I'm sure I'll get red marks for this. I don't care.l It's a blunt force trauma people need to be smacked with. My kid may get booed someday when the crowd doesnt like that her corps won. Know what she'll say?

"####ers, let em boo, I won".

Just like her daddy did in 1996 when my world title was booed in someone else's hometown.

I do find it hysterical that BD losing in NorCal was booed. Seeing the blue kool aiders try to justify it, vs past justificationsfor regional bias, uneducated fans etc is hysterical.