original score vs. music we know

[CrunchyTenor]

While I certainly enjoy hearing familiar melodies and pieces that are identified with a particular corps, I'm also in the school of fans that was introduced to new music via drum corps. While there are many years that I've enjoyed (for the sake of this discussion) the top-12 in it's entirety, most years there will be a couple that just aren't my favorite, and that's OK. I'm sure there are plenty of fans who enjoy those shows and don't necessarily enjoy the ones I do. For years we've been asking for a diverse field, to get away from "cookie-cutter" shows. Well, that's what we're getting. We're also getting all of the corps expressing their own identities, as recommended by Michael Cesario in his role within the DCI organization.

I'd rather have a broad spectrum than copy-cat shows. I don't mind new musical experiences. I'm not going to like every show, and I'm going to love a lot of them. What's so bad about that?

Besides, we all need at least one "hot dog" corps, don't we? (Or kettle corn, funnel cake, bathroom break, etc.)

Garry in Vegas

[N.E. Brigand]

I cannot seem to embrace the "original scores" that are written for specific shows, and to which I have (and I believe a large part of the audience has) a hard time relating to.

Having been a soprano player I can appreciate the musical complexities and all that neat stuff but I don't feel any emotion towards the music at all.

Examples are good: Saturday I streamed on Fan Network the Denver show; the two corps who received the greatest audience response were the Troopers, who played music that captured the audience's emotions, and Santa Clara with their Les Mis production that the audience knew and could feel and relate to. BD received a lukewarm audience response, Crown a bit better but it was obvious they did not elicit the same emotion from the audience as did Troopers and Santa Clara, even though their members have worked just as hard and deserve just as much applause.

OK, maybe I should have said music the majority of the audience cannot relate to, as opposed to original music. I guess I had "original music" stuck in my head because in watching Saturday's show, the repertoire was listed at the beginning of each corps, and I remember seeing "original music" and it stuck with me.

It seems a bit ironic when I find the Troopers repertoire listed as follows:

- The Magnificent Seven

- "John Dunbar" from Dances With Wolves

- "The Battle Hymn of the Republic"

- Original compositions by Robert W. Smith and Paul Rennick

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Link to discussion threads for all 2013 World Class corps

Edited July 8, 2013 by N.E. Brigand

[Tez]

I find Carolina Crown's music this year to be highly fan friendly and approachable to even the least musically educated person. There is not much dissonance in the show (last year's show was waaayyy darker, and crowds ate it up), Zarathustra should be recognizable to the vast majority of the audience, and they even should elicit decent emotional responses from the ballad music, and possibly from the end of the closer.

I would venture to guess that Crown's less than stellar audience reaction mostly stems from their heavy reliance on amplified voice. In my opinion, drum corps crowds still do not (and maybe never will) truly accept these new sounds as part of the activity. I know it may seem rather closed minded to pin this just on one aspect of this show... but I truly think that is the case.

[BRASSO]

I will probably take a beating for this post but so be it! I have been involved in/fan of Drum Corps for 40 years and I have always embraced change in the activity with enthusiasm and patience. But I cannot seem to embrace the "original scores" that are written for specific shows, and to which I have (and I believe a large part of the audience has) a hard time relating to.

Having been a soprano player I can appreciate the musical complexities and all that neat stuff but I don't feel any emotion towards the music at all.

Examples are good: Saturday I streamed on Fan Network the Denver show, the two corps who received the greatest audience response were the Troopers, who played music that captured the audience's emotions, and Santa Clara with their Les Mis production that the audience knew and could feel and relate to. BD received a luke warm audience response, Crown a bit better but it was obvious they did not elicit the same emotion from the audience as did Troopers and Santa Clara, even though their members have worked just as hard and deserve just as much applause.

Each year it seems at least one Corps (Madison comes to mind) seems to play to the audience at the expense of their judges score, and plays music that the audience feels and appreciates, even if the judges don't.

Although this is my opinion, I am just wondering how others feel, because to me a company front at the climax of Battle Hymn of the Republic or Can you Hear the People Sing makes my spine tingle, the hair on the back of my neck stand up and might even elicit a tear, and that is the feeling I want to get when I watch Drum Corps.

I understand your central point that many in the national audiences and the DCI judges are looking at these shows with different yardsticks. The audience wants to be entertained however one defines " entertained ". The Judges task is a different one altogether. They are charged with determining who is " better " by utilizing the judging sheets proposed by the DCI judging community and adopted by the Corps themselves. Nowhere in the General Effect captions is the audience a factor at all. The Corps have accepted this, and the judges judge the General Effect captions accordingly. As such, audiences have either left the activity altogether, or they leave the shows early now at the local shows and before the judges assign the scores and placements as to who was " better " that nite based upon the established criteria.

You mentioned that you have been going to shows for " close to 40 years ". I have as well. I have accepted the fact that audiences are not a factor in the placements and the scores, and so I leave the local shows right after the last performance of the last Corps at the show. In Lynn, Ma last Friday, after Phantom performed as the last Corps, there was a mad dash to the exits by people. When I left, and looked back outside the stadium much less than half the original audience was still in the stands, and some of them were probably there for the post show exhibition by The Legends standstill performing contingent. Fans, at least at local shows in Massachusetts, are in their cars on the highway when the scores are announced to the few still remaining in the stands. It never used to be quite this way, but the scores and placements at local shows now seem so preordained, and the audience uninvolved it it all, that hardly anybody anymore hangs around at the local shows anymore for the scores and the placements. Most of the MM's in the Corps seem totally unconcerned with the scores and placements as well, as most of them can be seen outside the stadium yakking it up among themselves as the scores are announced way back in the almost empty stadium. And who can blame them either ? Things DO change. We learn to adapt to it all, and just let the Corps know who have entertained us that we like what they do, and then leave it to the judges to give the scores and placements out after we've left. I don't need any judge to tell me what I like or don't like. And they don't need me to tell them which is " better ". I really don't care who is " better ". They don't care what entertains audiences either. So we operate under different circumstances, and most of us that have still remained after all these years have learned to live under these different circumstances, thats all. I recall when the judges used to be seen at the 50 yard line before the show, and would be introduced to the crowd. They'd step forward, take their cap off, and wave to the crowd. Now, the judges are anonymous and faceless to even the new audience goers. So they rush to the exits now too when the last performing Corps performs as well. Corps DO rise in placement based upon the demand and complexity of the designed shows. As such, we learn to recognize in June that for example, SCV show, has virtually no shot at a title as the show, no matter how well executed and how well loved by audiences, simply does not have the sufficient demand, complexity, in order to win. So thats that. But it does not mean that we can't enjoy what we enjoy with some of the Corps shows, now does it ? and there still is lots of variety in the shows if you know where to look... Fan Network for example has dozens of Corps shows. There's enough there to find the variety that one might crave it seems to me.

Edited July 8, 2013 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

I understand your central point that many in the national audiences and the DCI judges are looking at these shows with different yardsticks. The audience wants to be entertained however one defines " entertained ". The Judges task is a different one altogether. They are charged with determining who is " better " by utilizing the judging sheets proposed by the DCI judging community and adopted by the Corps themselves. Nowhere in the General Effect captions is the audience a factor at all. The Corps have accepted this, and the judges judge the General Effect captions accordingly. As such, audiences have either left the activity altogether, or they leave the shows early now at the local shows and before the judges assign the scores and placements as to who was " better " that nite based upon the established criteria.

You mentioned that you have been going to shows for " close to 40 years ". I have as well. I have accepted the fact that audiences are not a factor in the placements and the scores, and so I leave the local shows right after the last performance of the last Corps at the show. In Lynn, Ma last Friday, after Phantom performed as the last Corps, there was a mad dash to the exits by people. When I left, and looked back outside the stadium much less than half the original audience was still in the stands, and some of them were probably there for the post show exhibition by The Legends standstill performing contingent. Fans, at least at local shows in Massachusetts, are in their cars on the highway when the scores are announced to the few still remaining in the stands. It never used to be quite this way, but the scores and placements at local shows now seem so preordained, and the audience uninvolved it it all, that hardly anybody anymore hangs around at the local shows anymore for the scores and the placements. Most of the MM's in the Corps seem totally unconcerned with the scores and placements as well, as most of them can be seen outside the stadium yakking it up among themselves as the scores are announced way back in the almost empty stadium. And who can blame them either ? Things DO change. We learn to adapt to it all, and just let the Corps know who have entertained us that we like what they do, and then leave it to the judges to give the scores and placements out after we've left. I don't need any judge to tell me what I like or don't like. And they don't need me to tell them which is " better ". I really don't care who is " better ". They don't care what entertains audiences either. So we operate under different circumstances, and most of us that have still remained after all these years have learned to live under these different circumstances, thats all. I recall when the judges used to be seen at the 50 yard line before the show, and would be introduced to the crowd. They'd step forward, take their cap off, and wave to the crowd. Now, the judges are anonymous and faceless to even the new audience goers. So they rush to the exits now too when the last performing Corps performs as well. Corps DO rise in placement based upon the demand and complexity of the designed shows. As such, we learn to recognize in June that for example, SCV show, has virtually no shot at a title as the show, no matter how well executed and how well loved by audiences, simply does not have the sufficient demand, complexity, in order to win. So thats that. But it does not mean that we can't enjoy what we enjoy with some of the Corps shows, now does it ? and there still is lots of variety in the shows if you know where to look... Fan Network for example has dozens of Corps shows. There's enough there to find the variety that one might crave it seems to me.

although what you say is true there are many factors to todays drum corps experience which differs from ours.....Many shows BITD corps stayed over ( if traveling ) or they were local and went home after a show..today after a snack and a gab fest in the lot it's off for an 8 hour ride to the next location to be there by morningto hit the floors for 2 hours then onto the practice filed and do the whole thing again and again............Social media also played a part in the audience remaining, Today your phone ( which BITD was only at home or a phone booth ) can give you the results , sometimes faster than at the show. So many could avoid the traffic , etc etc and get out. Also BITD most shows were on the weekends ,now shows are during the week so I would imagine people are looking to get out even faster.

I think kids do ,like to entertain the audience and least the many I have taught do. Now ( as you said ) what determines entertainment is another story. As far as audience involvement I personally dont think it ever determined who won or didnt even BITD.. I remember many standing Os where I marched and didnt win.

I think to some degree we have become a society of the politically correct and how with some competition isn't important. Well IMO BITD 1st or last it was always a competition . If you were going for 1stor trying to get out of last place and knock off someone in front of you. Competiton made it very exciting BITD and I do believe no matter what anyone says including marching members it still means alot ( although many pretend it doesnt anymore ) JMO

Edited July 9, 2013 by GUARDLING

[perc2100]

I understand your central point that many in the national audiences and the DCI judges are looking at these shows with different yardsticks. The audience wants to be entertained however one defines " entertained ". The Judges task is a different one altogether. They are charged with determining who is " better " by utilizing the judging sheets proposed by the DCI judging community and adopted by the Corps themselves. Nowhere in the General Effect captions is the audience a factor at all. The Corps have accepted this, and the judges judge the General Effect captions accordingly. As such, audiences have either left the activity altogether, or they leave the shows early now at the local shows and before the judges assign the scores and placements as to who was " better " that nite based upon the established criteria.

You mentioned that you have been going to shows for " close to 40 years ". I have as well. I have accepted the fact that audiences are not a factor in the placements and the scores, and so I leave the local shows right after the last performance of the last Corps at the show. In Lynn, Ma last Friday, after Phantom performed as the last Corps, there was a mad dash to the exits by people. When I left, and looked back outside the stadium much less than half the original audience was still in the stands, and some of them were probably there for the post show exhibition by The Legends standstill performing contingent. Fans, at least at local shows in Massachusetts, are in their cars on the highway when the scores are announced to the few still remaining in the stands. It never used to be quite this way, but the scores and placements at local shows now seem so preordained, and the audience uninvolved it it all, that hardly anybody anymore hangs around at the local shows anymore for the scores and the placements. Most of the MM's in the Corps seem totally unconcerned with the scores and placements as well, as most of them can be seen outside the stadium yakking it up among themselves as the scores are announced way back in the almost empty stadium. And who can blame them either ? Things DO change. We learn to adapt to it all, and just let the Corps know who have entertained us that we like what they do, and then leave it to the judges to give the scores and placements out after we've left. I don't need any judge to tell me what I like or don't like. And they don't need me to tell them which is " better ". I really don't care who is " better ". They don't care what entertains audiences either. So we operate under different circumstances, and most of us that have still remained after all these years have learned to live under these different circumstances, thats all. I recall when the judges used to be seen at the 50 yard line before the show, and would be introduced to the crowd. They'd step forward, take their cap off, and wave to the crowd. Now, the judges are anonymous and faceless to even the new audience goers. So they rush to the exits now too when the last performing Corps performs as well. Corps DO rise in placement based upon the demand and complexity of the designed shows. As such, we learn to recognize in June that for example, SCV show, has virtually no shot at a title as the show, no matter how well executed and how well loved by audiences, simply does not have the sufficient demand, complexity, in order to win. So thats that. But it does not mean that we can't enjoy what we enjoy with some of the Corps shows, now does it ? and there still is lots of variety in the shows if you know where to look... Fan Network for example has dozens of Corps shows. There's enough there to find the variety that one might crave it seems to me.

I think to be fair, in regards to fans leaving early before scores are announced, I would stipulate that there is a decent portion of fans who want to "beat the traffic" out, or get home earlier; in this day-and-age the recaps are posted almost immediately after they're announced live. When I've gone to live shows (including a Semifinals), I knew that I'd MUCH rather see the recaps ASAP than wait for the scores, drive home, then look at recaps. With modern technology (and society's need to have information NOW), I would bet there are folks who leave early so they can see the recaps quicker. I'm not denying that there are fans who leave because they disagree with scores, don't want to hear someone else win, or whatever; but I think it's disingenuous to imply that that's the only reason fans leave before scores.

[BRASSO]

I'm not denying that there are fans who leave because they disagree with scores, don't want to hear someone else win, or whatever; but I think it's disingenuous to imply that that's the only reason fans leave before scores.

I never posted in my comments above that fans leave for these reasons, nor do I believe these are the primary and the " only reason " that fans leave before the scores are announced, so I have no idea why you replied this way to something I never posted, nor believe. :wall:/>

Edited July 9, 2013 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

although what you say is true there are many factors to todays drum corps experience which differs from ours.....Many shows BITD corps stayed over ( if traveling ) or they were local and went home after a show..today after a snack and a gab fest in the lot it's off for an 8 hour ride to the next location to be there by morningto hit the floors for 2 hours then onto the practice filed and do the whole thing again and again............Social media also played a part in the audience remaining, Today your phone ( which BITD was only at home or a phone booth ) can give you the results , sometimes faster than at the show. So many could avoid the traffic , etc etc and get out. Also BITD most shows were on the weekends ,now shows are during the week so I would imagine people are looking to get out even faster.

I think kids do ,like to entertain the audience and least the many I have taught do. Now ( as you said ) what determines entertainment is another story. As far as audience involvement I personally dont think it ever determined who won or didnt even BITD.. I remember many standing Os where I marched and didnt win.

I think to some degree we have become a society of the politically correct and how with some competition isn't important. Well IMO BITD 1st or last it was always a competition . If you were going for 1stor trying to get out of last place and knock off someone in front of you. Competiton made it very exciting BITD and I do believe no matter what anyone says including marching members it still means alot ( although many pretend it doesnt anymore ) JMO

I do agree with you that these are certainly understandable multiple reasons why so many fans these days at local shows are increasingly seen leaving after the last Corps performance. Some of them are mine too, ie mid week shows, traffic, etc... others also now have ability to get scores as they're traveling home if the scores are important at that show to them, just as you posted.

Edited July 9, 2013 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

Star of Indiana did a show that their designers believed was purposefully audience-friendly and they got boo'ed at shows, and at the time were generally no where near as beloved as designers thought they would be.

Nonsense. There is no evidence at all to support your contention that the Star of Indiana staff was so tone deaf, so out of touch with national audience tastes, that they designed a show whose national audience reaction appeared to stun them and shock them. These Star staff members were ( and are ) intelligent and perceptive people re Drum Corps general audience tastes. To think otherwise, is simply absurd and naive, imo.

Edited July 9, 2013 by BRASSO

[N.E. Brigand]

Star of Indiana did a show that their designers believed was purposefully audience-friendly, and they got booed at shows, and at the time were generally nowhere near as beloved as designers thought they would be.

Nonsense. There is no evidence at all to support your contention that the Star of Indiana staff was so tone deaf, so out of touch with national audience tastes, that they designed a show whose national audience reaction appeared to stun them and shock them. These Star staff members were (and are) intelligent and perceptive people re Drum Corps general audience tastes. To think otherwise, is simply absurd and naive, imo.

I think perc2100 is talking about the Americana show that Star put on in 1992. If I'm right, then he's just echoing what Michael Boo wrote in his chapter, "Star of Indiana", in the book A History of Drum & Bugle Corps, Volume 2 (ed. Steve Vickers [Madison: Sights & Sounds, 2003], pp. 388-93). Boo writes:

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1992 -- 'American Variations'

After winning the DCI World Championship, fans wondered what Star would do for an encore. "American Variations" was an audience-accessible show that was sometimes referred to as Star's "patriotic show."

Mason and his staff were concerned that Star was at risk of getting too sophisticated, a complaint heard from some fans. So they designed a show to pull at the heartstrings. A few beautifully painted transparent scrims of American icons appeared, such as the Statue of Liberty and scenes of natural beauty. Sections of the corps stood behind the scrims to quite an effect.

Body sculpting was introduced, with members freezing their bodies in intriguing positions or moving in fluid ways not generally seen before.

Music was Morton Gould's Star-Spangled Overture, William Schuman's Chester, Gould's Amber Waves and Gordon Jacobs' Flag of Stars.

Some people expressed criticism that the corps was pandering to the public. This wasn't helped when a giant 40- by 60-foot scrim of the Statue of Liberty and fireworks were unveiled the final week of the season. The entire corps fit behind the scrim and was visible behind it.

For some reason, the scrim tended to mute audience response instead of heightening it.

Star went undefeated going into DCI World Championship quarterfinals, won that show, placed second in semifinals and finished third in finals with a score of 96.70, bested by Cadets of Bergen County and the Cavaliers, who won their first DCI title.

The slide down the placements the final week and the tepid audience reaction to what was constructed as an audience-friendly show had an impact on Mason. According to Cook, "For Jim, 1992 was a pivotal year because the show was designed for broad audience appeal and the result was a hostile crowd. At that time, he decided to explore different directions."

He explored a different direction with a vengeance.

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Do you disagree with Boo's summation of Star in '92?

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Link to discussion threads for all 2013 World Class corps