PeeWee Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I won't see any corps live until Indianapolis this season, but I've watched the latest versions of their shows On Demand. As I was watching Blue Devils, I thought that the judging sheets now take crowd appeal into account. Am I wrong on this? If they do, why the hell is BD beating anybody at all? Their show has absolutely the worst crowd reaction out of the entire Top 8 this year. Am I missing something? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I won't see any corps live until Indianapolis this season, but I've watched the latest versions of their shows On Demand. As I was watching Blue Devils, I thought that the judging sheets now take crowd appeal into account. Am I wrong on this? If they do, why the hell is BD beating anybody at all? Their show has absolutely the worst crowd reaction out of the entire Top 8 this year. Am I missing something? The judges are still judging on the old sheets... actually.. I'm pretty sure some of them still think they are judging from the tic era. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) I won't see any corps live until Indianapolis this season, but I've watched the latest versions of their shows On Demand. As I was watching Blue Devils, I thought that the judging sheets now take crowd appeal into account. Am I wrong on this? If they do, why the hell is BD beating anybody at all? Their show has absolutely the worst crowd reaction out of the entire Top 8 this year. Am I missing something? "Appeal vs. Engagement" (totally different process) :w00t:/> Here is the criteria used on DCI sheets for General Effect: G.E. Repertoire Effect - Audience Engagement - Audio and Visual Coordination - Interpretation - Variety of Effects - Creativity, Originality, and Artistry Performers - Engage the Audience - Deliver/Sustain the Effects - Embody/Sustain Character, Role, Identity, Style - Communicate Detail, Nuance, and Artistic Qualities In reality, the only truly objective thing you can say about audience engagement, is that it is listed first. :blink:/>/> Edited July 11, 2013 by c mor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) As I was watching Blue Devils, I thought that the judging sheets now take crowd appeal into account. Am I wrong on this? Unfortunately you are wrong. When the new judging sheets were being designed, crowd appeal and entertainment was sold as part of the package. There was even a rule change proposed by the Scouts at the January 2011 annual meeting to add an "Entertainment Effect" caption to the judging that would directly address this concern, and the DCI board voted to table it because of this effort to rewrite the judging sheets which promised to incorporate the concerns being raised. But when the sheets were released, crowd appeal or entertainment is nowhere to be found, and DCI also stopped using those words when describing the changes. :sad:/>/> Edited July 11, 2013 by skywhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Unfortunately you are wrong. When the new judging sheets were being designed, crown appeal and entertainment was sold as part of the package. There was even a rule change proposed by the Scouts at the January 2011 annual meeting to add an "Entertainment Effect" caption to the judging that would directly address this concern, and the DCI board voted to table it because of this effort to rewrite the judging sheets which promised to incorporate the concerns being raised. But when the sheets were released, crowd appeal or entertainment is nowhere to be found, and DCI also stopped using those words when describing the changes. :sad:/>/> Now, just how are all the other corps supposed to compete with that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbeau Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I like SCV every year and this year is no exception, will they overtake BD this season, nope. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Now, just how are all the other corps supposed to compete with that? Bwaha! I'm going to blame that one on muscle memory from too much posting on DCP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeWee Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Well, if audience reaction is not part of DCIs judging, then they will continue to disappoint and lose their fan base in addition to not gaining any new fans. Fortunately for us, there are still some corps out there that try to entertain the crowd. I confess there were plenty of Vanguards' shows in the past I really didn't care for. Esoteric/abstract = I'm going to visit the concession stand the next time I see your show. It's not the performers fault. It's 100% the show designers fault. I don't blame the performers. But, unless it's nap time for me, I'd rather go do something more productive with my time. Sorry, but that's my opinion. And I know I'm not alone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Well, if audience reaction is not part of DCIs judging, then they will continue to disappoint and lose their fan base in addition to not gaining any new fans. Fortunately for us, there are still some corps out there that try to entertain the crowd. I confess there were plenty of Vanguards' shows in the past I really didn't care for. Esoteric/abstract = I'm going to visit the concession stand the next time I see your show. It's not the performers fault. It's 100% the show designers fault. I don't blame the performers. But, unless it's nap time for me, I'd rather go do something more productive with my time. Sorry, but that's my opinion. And I know I'm not alone. Unfortunately due to personal "taste" audience reaction in and of itself is also subjective IMO...BUT I really think also that the Scouts proposal from 2011 should perhaps be revisited after this season...the term "audience engagement" in its current form on the judging sheets is not worth the paper it was written on...I seriously doubt that anyone would argue that it would be the imminent demise of DCI if we had a season that excluded esoteric/abstract shows. A very small base of fans may be up in arms, but I don't think this would make any negative impact to DCI's bottom line profit. In fact it may have the direct opposite effect IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 To PeeWee and Liahona: I agree with much of what you're saying. I think also, long-term staffs eventually work through their "pet" ideas they've nurtured, and then they venture into "what if" territory...probably just to see if it can be done. I dunno. Not sure if/how/what to change judging sheets, if that is really an answer. Probably, if you could go through several years, say 5-7, where the fan favorite show won each year, things might change. I remember the early 70's when all those around me in the audience at a Bay Area show were really liking the Commodores, but Santa Clara was playing this symphonic music stuff - people could see they were performing with excellence, they simply enjoyed Stockton over SC. During my time at BD, the only thing we cared about was staying ahead of Santa Clara. If we could do that, we knew we had a shot. Over the years SC had a reputation for cleaning and excelling into finals. They were always dangerous. As for this year, I would never count them out. They could do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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