fsubone Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 If DCI fans were, are, enjoying the current trend of academic intellectual stimulation of some of the top corps as you contend then DCI Finals would be increasing in audience numbers instead of stagnating or falling. Want to increase the fan base? Entertain! More people go see U2 each year than all symphonies and operas combined! That doesn't make what U2 does a good thing though. Just because something is popular, doesn't make it good. (cough, cough, Beiber, cough). A lot of movies that make hundreds of millions of dollars are awful, but people still go to them. Should we really start appealing to the lowest common denominator, or should DCI present fans with a choice in shows that they can watch? I have a few hundred channels on my TV. Some are mindless cartoons, some are thought-provoking documentaries. I have the ability and free choice to choose to watch whatever I want, I'm not being forced to just watch one thing over the other. Same with DCI shows. Not everyone is doing a high-end intellectual show, some are going for more base appeal, (SCV, Surf, Colts, Troopers, Spirt) that it is still fun for the fan who just wants to be entertained. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I believe you meant condescension, not condensation. Unless his comments are actually raining on your parade.... Thanks for the catch; I sometimes type too fast and rely on spell check way too much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 That doesn't make what U2 does a good thing though. Just because something is popular, doesn't make it good. (cough, cough, Beiber, cough). A lot of movies that make hundreds of millions of dollars are awful, but people still go to them. Should we really start appealing to the lowest common denominator, or should DCI present fans with a choice in shows that they can watch? I have a few hundred channels on my TV. Some are mindless cartoons, some are thought-provoking documentaries. I have the ability and free choice to choose to watch whatever I want, I'm not being forced to just watch one thing over the other. Same with DCI shows. Not everyone is doing a high-end intellectual show, some are going for more base appeal, (SCV, Surf, Colts, Troopers, Spirt) that it is still fun for the fan who just wants to be entertained. I have not implied good vs bad but have implied purpose of activity. U2 is a high quality ensemble consisting of four musicians, and the Kronos Quartet is also a high quality ensemble consisting of four musicians. Mainly it all depends on what is deemed more important: Artistic and intellectual stimulation like the Kronos Quartet (which is fine but it yields a smaller audience attendance at small venues and smaller revenues); or Entertainment like U2 (which leads to multiple professional football stadium sell-outs and larger revenue). The movers and shakers of DCI currently seem to be wondering aimlessly between wanting artistic intellectual stimulation yet also wanting the pro football stadium sell-outs. Ergo the conundrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I have not implied good vs bad but have implied purpose of activity. U2 is a high quality ensemble consisting of four musicians, and the Kronos Quartet is also a high quality ensemble consisting of four musicians. Mainly it all depends on what is deemed more important: Artistic and intellectual stimulation like the Kronos Quartet (which is fine but it yields a smaller audience attendance at small venues and smaller revenues); or Entertainment like U2 (which leads to multiple professional football stadium sell-outs and larger revenue). The movers and shakers of DCI currently seem to be wondering aimlessly between wanting artistic intellectual stimulation yet also wanting the pro football stadium sell-outs. Ergo the conundrum. At least DCI gives us choice on what we want to see. People can either watch Surf's fun show, or BD's intellectual show. No one is going to hold a gun to someone's head and force them to sit through a show they don't want to. While they should support the corps and everything, they should still have some kind of choice as to what they want to watch. I don't think DCI should be either all intellectual or base entertainment. It should be about multiple different types of shows for people to enjoy, since everyone has different tastes in show design. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Please don't speak for "the fans." Thanks. Not speaking 'for' the fans but 'about' the fans. Let's see: a) DCI fans, for the most part, travel to Indy and pay out all that money to receive academic intellectual stimulation and education about the historical significance of artistic music and motion; or b) DCI fans, for the most part, travel to Indy and pay out all that money to receive a respite from life's worries and troubles for a brief moment of shear entertainment. Hmmmmmmmmm..... I vote b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Not speaking 'for' the fans but 'about' the fans. Let's see: a) DCI fans, for the most part, travel to Indy and pay out all that money to receive academic intellectual stimulation and education about the historical significance of artistic music and motion; or b) DCI fans, for the most part, travel to Indy and pay out all that money to receive a respite from life's worries and troubles for a brief moment of shear entertainment. Hmmmmmmmmm..... I vote b. Can I vote C for both options? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 At least DCI gives us choice on what we want to see. People can either watch Surf's fun show, or BD's intellectual show. No one is going to hold a gun to someone's head and force them to sit through a show they don't want to. While they should support the corps and everything, they should still have some kind of choice as to what they want to watch. I don't think DCI should be either all intellectual or base entertainment. It should be about multiple different types of shows for people to enjoy, since everyone has different tastes in show design. Agreed with everything you wrote; however... DCI judging opinion is currently skewed to push back at 'entertaining' shows like Regiment 2008 and really push forward 'intellectual' shows like BD 2012. That limits the choices made by the designers who desire to medal and subsequently limits the top-tier choices viewed by the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Can I vote C for both options? Sure; because 'c' is the current state of DCI. However if you want the activity to grow in fans and grow in revenue to support the multimillion dollar touring system it needs to move toward 'b'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Agreed with everything you wrote; however... DCI judging opinion is currently skewed to push back at 'entertaining' shows like Regiment 2008 and really push forward 'intellectual' shows like BD 2012. That limits the choices made by the designers who desire to medal and subsequently limits the top-tier choices viewed by the fans. There's been a balance to be struck. Out of the last 10 years, I'd say just the last few BD shows have been intellectual over base entertainment. People still enjoy them though. Going back 10 years, we've had BD's Phenomenon of Cool and Winged Victory, Cavies' 007 and Machine, Cadet's Angels and Demons and Zone, and Phantom's Spartacus. That's 7 out of 10, which is pretty good odds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasgre2000 Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) If DCI fans were, are, enjoying the current trend of academic intellectual stimulation of some of the top corps as you contend then DCI Finals would be increasing in audience numbers instead of stagnating or falling. Want to increase the fan base? Entertain! More people go see U2 each year than all symphonies and operas combined! Another absurd comparison to popular entertainment. DCI is not and never will be U2, regardless of what the shows look like. There is no evidence, other than base assertions from people like you, that show design has anything to do with decreased attendence (if said decreased attendance even exists in the first place). There are dozens of different theories I can come up with to explain decreased attendance that have absolutely nothing to do with show design. Quit pretending like DCI has ever been, or ever will be, a financial juggernaut popular to the masses. It will never happen, and that is alright. The last thing we should be doing is dumbing things down in the futile attempt to attract mass audiences that could not give a crap about drum corps, regardless of design. DCI audiences have always been, and will always be, largely made up of DCI alumni, their families, and high school band members taken to shows by their directors. I am one of the few that has come to the activity without having any real exposure to it until my mid-20s (and even then I was in high school marching band and was at least aware of DCI in high school). The idea that DCI can expand its audience by any large measure if it will just play more show tunes and pops is silly. Drum corps audiences are shrinking (assuming that bald assertion is even true) because there are less and less alumni (fewer corps), busier high school students, easy access to shows via the fan network (making it less important to attend multiple live shows), unjustified increases in ticket prices, DCI's misguided efforts to prevent any exposure outside fan network subscribers, and a bad decision to lock up the championships in a bad venue. None of that has anything to do with show design. Edited July 24, 2013 by jasgre2000 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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