JimF-LowBari Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Crunching code all week so put on headphones to listen to music to block outside noise. This time grabbed some corps CDs that haven't listened to for a while and some I forgot I had. To make it more interesing I'm starting with the newest shows and working backwards. IMO the interesting part is hearing how far corps have come. So have: CD of individual Religious songs (1953-1981) some mid 70s shows I was in early 60s of two major corps (thank you Fleetwood) early 1950s shows (thank you DCW) couple of partial late 40s shows from various places So horns starting with 2v, going to piston/rotor and back to single valve (and single valve only). Drums going from full range of field (no pit yet) perc to basses/snares/tenors(?)/cymbals. Interesting part is the corps played so many songs way back when it's almost like "chop 'n bop'. Any thoughts from the peanut gallary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Crunching code all week so put on headphones to listen to music to block outside noise. This time grabbed some corps CDs that haven't listened to for a while and some I forgot I had. To make it more interesing I'm starting with the newest shows and working backwards. IMO the interesting part is hearing how far corps have come. So have: CD of individual Religious songs (1953-1981) some mid 70s shows I was in early 60s of two major corps (thank you Fleetwood) early 1950s shows (thank you DCW) couple of partial late 40s shows from various places So horns starting with 2v, going to piston/rotor and back to single valve (and single valve only). Drums going from full range of field (no pit yet) perc to basses/snares/tenors(?)/cymbals. Interesting part is the corps played so many songs way back when it's almost like "chop 'n bop'. Any thoughts from the peanut gallary? i don't know what you mean by chop n bob. help me here jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) i don't know what you mean by chop n bob. help me here jim. Term I picked up in the DCI side but haven't heard a complete DCI show in a few years... Supposedly corps use bits and pieces of songs at times to make the show theme more complete. For those who think the "show package" is most important it's not that big of a idea. For those who would rather hear complete songs and bag the concept, it's kinda... yucky... LOL - don't think the term is used by pro-package people but... couldn't resist... Edited July 24, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 By "So many" how many are we talking about, Jim? Think about the format, and correct me if I'm off on this: Fanfare off Side 1 Goal line Opener Production Concert Flag presentation Closer/Exit Throw in your percussion feature somewhere in there, and even at one point a Horn feature, maybe as a second production. From what I heard and seen, the Fanfares are pretty short. Still, are we talking somewhere around a 12 minute program in this period? Still gives you somewhere around 2 minutes per piece of music, which should be enough to make the selection feel complete. Especially BITD, when they used a lot of pop tunes, just get rid of all the verses to cut the time down from the typical 2 minute 30 single to 2 minutes or less. Another thing that may make it feel disconcerting to you is this: IIRC, part of the regs in that earlier period of time was that the corps had to march within a specified tempo range and would get penalized if it varied beyond that. A lot of really strange canoodling of pieces resulted where you'd recognize the piece in there but it would really sound goofy. Especially stuff in 3/4 time. Nowadays, esp. with Bands, shows run around 7-8 minutes, barely enough time for 3 segments. Unsure what DCA minimum tomes are now, but I'd think most corps run within 15-20 secs max over minimum. Why? You truthfully don't get more credit for more content like you theoretically should or could, and it's more stuff to have to learn, more drill, etc, more to clean. Remember having a serious and good discussion on that subject in '92 with Mike Longdo. Learned that years ago and when consulting on one bands design process I impressed that upon them, scores went up for less show the next season pretty dramatically. Just some different thoughts on the whole show design issues you bring up, man. Effective and efficient use of allotted time has always been very important no matter what era you're talking about. Too tired to continue, but... there was also the factor at one time where DCA stopped judging performance/execution after the gun so corps could lay out and get crazy on effect only and not worry about how clean it was. Still, you didn't want to overrun too far whilst playing your brains out. Making me think too much for 6 AM Jim. Time for bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 By "So many" how many are we talking about, Jim? Think about the format, and correct me if I'm off on this: Fanfare off Side 1 Goal line Opener Production Concert Flag presentation Closer/Exit Typical 50's / 60's format: Opening Fanfare OTL Drum Solo #1 Filler # to get backfield Color Pre (typlically with a stop ending) Into Concert Concert Out of Concert Production # Drum Solo #2 Final Signature Example: Bpt. PAL 1966 Opening Fanfare (Sasso original 32 steps) OTL - The Usher from the Mezzanine Filler - Take Me Out to the Ballgame Color Pre - You'll Never Walk Alone Into Concert - People Concert - Coronet Man Out of Concert - Some One Of These Days Production - Semper Paratus Exit - Exodus Final Fanfare (concert reprise) Older shows ran 11-13 minutes ... can't remember when they shortened to 8-11 ... or 8-10 ... Hope this helps your history learning ... I'm sure others will correct where I'm wrong ot post their own show song titles. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Typical 50's / 60's format: Opening Fanfare OTL Drum Solo #1 Filler # to get backfield Color Pre (typlically with a stop ending) Into Concert Concert Out of Concert Production # Drum Solo #2 Final Signature Example: Bpt. PAL 1966 Opening Fanfare (Sasso original 32 steps) OTL - The Usher from the Mezzanine Filler - Take Me Out to the Ballgame Color Pre - You'll Never Walk Alone Into Concert - People Concert - Coronet Man Out of Concert - Some One Of These Days Production - Semper Paratus Exit - Exodus Final Fanfare (concert reprise) Older shows ran 11-13 minutes ... can't remember when they shortened to 8-11 ... or 8-10 ... Hope this helps your history learning ... I'm sure others will correct where I'm wrong ot post their own show song titles. :-) that's what we did andy. i don't call that chop n bop. . i call that a real show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Take a look at some of the selections listed in the PAL show, Jim- Some of them are very short pieces of music even before Sasso would have started to arrange them. Speaking of, his arrangement of "The Lord's Prayer" from the movie "The Robe" that the Selden Cadets alumni play today- very short and to the point, VERY good. When their conductor says it holds up well today, it's an understatement. It's very good Brass Choir writing, period. Thanks for correcting my format. Hard to believe time for 2 percussion features, but again, if they're short and to the point, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Priester Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Typical 50's / 60's format: Older shows ran 11-13 minutes ... can't remember when they shortened to 8-11 ... or 8-10 ... Hope this helps your history learning ... I'm sure others will correct where I'm wrong ot post their own show song titles. :-) And before that they ran 13-15 minutes. Still, with 11-13, it was plenty of time to get a couple of full numbers in there without resorting to a snippet of this and a hint of that, etc.. That's another reason why folks left the show whistling or humming what they just heard, because they actually heard pretty much a full tune and not just a chord or two. Way too many of today's shows come across as horn exercises or buzz roll rim-shot warm ups. JMHO. Hell, even Hy's medleys of tunes gave you enough to know what was actually being played and didn't leave the fans saying WTF? Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 And before that they ran 13-15 minutes. Still, with 11-13, it was plenty of time to get a couple of full numbers in there without resorting to a snippet of this and a hint of that, etc.. That's another reason why folks left the show whistling or humming what they just heard, because they actually heard pretty much a full tune and not just a chord or two. Way too many of today's shows come across as horn exercises or buzz roll rim-shot warm ups. JMHO. Hell, even Hy's medleys of tunes gave you enough to know what was actually being played and didn't leave the fans saying WTF? Ray ray you are so right on everything. but we are dino's and the youngsters don't care what we think. it's their gig now. let them kill it. we still have our memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 ray you are so right on everything. but we are dino's and the youngsters don't care what we think. it's their gig now. let them kill it. we still have our memories. Don ... that's not what this thread is about ... Jim asked us to go backwards in time so he can appreciate the older shows ... I believe he didn't start marching until 1974 and the other guy (BigW) didn't start until 1978 or so ... why don't you recount what Rochester played in 67 when you joined ... or, 72 when you won the AL Nats? ... maybe that will help them understand what a "show" was back then ... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.