bill Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 By "So many" how many are we talking about, Jim? Think about the format, and correct me if I'm off on this: Fanfare off Side 1 Goal line Opener Production Concert Flag presentation Closer/Exit I recall many formats being: Fanfare Opener Color Prez Into Concert Concert Out of Concert Production Closer Closing Fanfare At times, if the tune was long enough and warranted, the Out of Concert was the actual Production Number then directly into the Closer. Typically a couple drum features; one in the before concert part of the show and one in the after concert part of the show. Then there was the; Inspection Line, Ready Line, Starting Line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Heard enough recordings and seen enough videos to have a feel for it, though timing and such, I just didn't have some of the details down. I did do flag pres as a kid in HS competition before I joined Westshore in '79. Jim, I'm thinking what makes you feel like everything is so chop 'n bop is that the presentations, while they do have a logical beginning, middle and an ending that is well defined as musically complete and satisfying, are just very short in length. Maybe a minute and a half or quite less in some instances. Don's comments are well-taken. There does need to be a feeling of musical completeness to a segment of show, one would think. That's where the arguments begin. Some arrangers and composers may THINK it's "complete" but it's not really as much as they think it is. It may be a bit off topic but is somewhat related since we're talking about design from yesterday to today. Some of the issue is some designers tend to arrange the music to fit already created drill design, rather than the way it used to be, which was to design drill to established musical arrangements. I think that's how things end up sounding incomplete and unresolved in many instances to quite a few people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalieguy Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I remember my first year in '72 with much the same format that my kilted friend listed..After '72 DCI (followed by DCA, AL, VFW, etc.) changed their boundary lines, the format of the show altered very little..That was the first time I saw anyone do a Color Pre as the LAST song in the show. Rehashing Don's and Andy's listings...Don - you should remember that Cru did their Color Pre out of concert back in '72..I was sitting on the front sidelines about 3 rows up at Horlick Field in Racine on "that unbelievable night" before Legion in Chi-town...Ask Peashey - I gave him a copy of that CD a couple of years ago..I may have to burn another copy if I keep playing it. MBI used their Color Pre at the end in '73 and beyond..I recall Argonne with their 3 song show that same year, with stars and stripes as the CP at the end..Still listen to that show just for the horn book..I think the young-ins need to hear THAT show with that line before they give us older folks the raz-berries. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donincardona Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Don ... that's not what this thread is about ... Jim asked us to go backwards in time so he can appreciate the older shows ... I believe he didn't start marching until 1974 and the other guy (BigW) didn't start until 1978 or so ... why don't you recount what Rochester played in 67 when you joined ... or, 72 when you won the AL Nats? ... maybe that will help them understand what a "show" was back then ... :-) ok. in 1965 we played a fanfare, franks fan fare and swung into devil at 12o'clock high. then we did a drum solo. it was about 30 seconds long heavy on snare. then we did our color pre. navy hymn. this was in memorium to JFK. i don't remember the tune going into concert but it was a peodution number. concert was cubana chant and gold finger. it was kinda need the way doc mizma mixed the two togther. we came out of cocert to " i talk to the trees" it was a big number from those day's. the theme song to the movie. after that we did a really banging drum solo. heave on snares and rudimental bass. it was about 45 seconds long. our exit was in the still of the night and the fan.fare of west side story. in 1967 we did i a complete mishmash of songs. and it was a crap show. not really worth mentioning. but it was a lot of 30 second and 40 second snipits of tunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Hell, even Hy's medleys of tunes gave you enough to know what was actually being played and didn't leave the fans saying WTF? Ray Skyliners' 1963 concert piece comes to mind. A whole lot of stuff happening in a short period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I can understand the "chop and bop" thing from this perspective... It seems that some of those "back in the day" shows... circa 1950s-1960s in particular.. were a bunch of tunes tossed together with no rhyme or reason as to whether they even came close to fitting together. Not fitting together as a "theme"... but fitting together from a transitions/flow standpoint, among other things. Sometimes it sounded as if corps design staffs just threw a bunch of tunes at the wall to see which ones would stick. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 George Zingali referred to that as a "Carol Burnett Show", Fran. A bit of everything fun for everyone. He went on to say in 1984 that the Carol Burnett format was just fine as long as the selections complimented each other and went well together as a whole. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I can understand the "chop and bop" thing from this perspective... It seems that some of those "back in the day" shows... circa 1950s-1960s in particular.. were a bunch of tunes tossed together with no rhyme or reason as to whether they even came close to fitting together. Not fitting together as a "theme"... but fitting together from a transitions/flow standpoint, among other things. Sometimes it sounded as if corps design staffs just threw a bunch of tunes at the wall to see which ones would stick. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :tongue:/> What one must remember is that the horn instructor (Dreitzer, Genero, Sasso, Crawford, Bunce, etc) basically decided what music would be played ... and what would work for their corps ... an upbeat "show tune" for an OTL ... a regal number for the Color Pre ... a Concert which could vary from the corps' status quo ... a knock-em-outta-their seats Out of Concert tune ... softer ballads for moving the corps backfield ... a "rousing" Production Number (usually the tune with the most impact drill-wise) ... and the Exit, which usually conveyed some sentimental value and said goodbye to the fans ... the tunes didn't have to fit together ... they had to "fit" the personality of the corps and where it appeared in the corps show ... the M&M person then wrote the drill to maximize the musical "hits" ... and the drum guy filled in the number of counts to get the corps from one place to another with some pretty celver solos ... and that's my experience with show design in the mid-60's ... PM me to discuss further ... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Sun Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) Take a look at some of the selections listed in the PAL show, Jim- Some of them are very short pieces of music even before Sasso would have started to arrange them. Speaking of, his arrangement of "The Lord's Prayer" from the movie "The Robe" that the Selden Cadets alumni play today- very short and to the point, VERY good. When their conductor says it holds up well today, it's an understatement. It's very good Brass Choir writing, period. Thanks for correcting my format. Hard to believe time for 2 percussion features, but again, if they're short and to the point, why not? The Lords Prayer was played by the Sunrisers as a colour Pre and was from the Moive= King Of Kings Edited July 26, 2013 by Florida Sun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 The Lords Prayer was played by the Sunrisers as a colour Pre and was from the Moive= King Of Kings Gah! I knew it was one of those religious movies from that period. Selden Cadets Alumni perform that one in concert, and many if not most of them are Sunriser Alumni. I do consider it one of the **best** moments in Alumni Corps when it's performed. It's very unique and real quality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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