Achievement score > Content score

[3rd Glasgow BB]

I'm certain this has been covered on DCP before.

Under what circumstances does this happen?

[jwillis35]

The achievement score being greater than content can actually happen. It sometimes gets misinterpreted.

Content, of course, is the material you've been given (brass book, percussion book, guard routines, drill, etc.). The score here is more about the quality of your book, the demand within that book, whether or not it makes sense, etc.

Achievement is how the members are performing that specific area (brass book, etc.). So achievement has more to do with how the members are actually performing and content has more to do with what they've been given.

It gets explained different ways, but that's the gist.

It has typically been assumed that if your achievement score is greater than your content score that you are OUT-PERFORMING your book. Now, in reality I doubt this is true. Such rationale would almost assume that the book was performed perfectly, which isn't true.

To get a more appropriate understanding you want to think of Content as having a ceiling. Let's use the brass performance caption as an example. Let's say that there are 6 boxes for brass content based on demand and artistry (what the performers are being asked to do). They are Very Easy, Easy, Medium Easy, Medium, Medium Difficult, and Difficult. The judge determines that your book is Medium Easy. ME books can garner you points no higher than from 60-69. Where you land will depend on how effective the construction is. If you want a chance to get into the 90 percentile for that caption you will need a book in Box 6 (Difficult), worth 90-100.

So there is a ceiling on how many points you can garner based on your brass book in this case. It's a Medium Easy book, and because of this it has a max number of points it can garner unless you make changes to increase demand, artistry, flow, exposure to error, endurance, range, etc.

However, the performance of the brass line while on the field could be judged to be fairly high. The question many have had over the years was this: If your Content score is say a 68, is it possible to score higher for actual achievement (performance) of that book?

* Some feel that your highest possible performance score should be no higher than your Content score. And in most cases it would be lower.

** Others think (and I fall into this camp) that you can outperform your book because in reality we are judging TWO DIFFERENT captions, but sadly we are grouping them via sub-captions into one brass performance score.

I would have no problem saying this: You are performing a MEDIUM EASY brass book at nearly 85% proficiency. So the sub-caption scores might be Content: 67, Achievement: 85.

This would actually help give more credit to the actual marching member on the field, and it still encourages the staff to make changes.

One of the reasons we do not see such disparity between the two is because early-season performance levels are typically going to be lower than the content, and the staff is always making changes so the content score keeps changing as well.

I am simplifying this some, but that's the gist of things. Usually when a brass line (or whatever the caption) begins to outperform their book, the instructors step in a make adjustments to the book.

Theoretically though, if a corps made NO changes to their brass book all summer and they were given a 55 in Content (Easy for example), yet come their last show of the season the brass line absolutely nailed the book, you should be able to see a score of Content: 55, Achievement: 97.

But the system really doesn't work that way, in part because we also have to factor the spread between your achievement and those you compete with. So the last phase of this system is comparison and starting point. Whoever performs first sets the bar from which spreads will either go up or down. This is where the system becomes confusing and also highly debatable. Many people say the judges shouldn't compare one corps to the next. Just judge them on their own merit. But others say they have to compare because it's competition and the better brass line must receive a better achievement number, even if their content is roughly the same.

Not easy to be a DCI judge.

Edited July 25, 2013 by jwillis35

[ssorrell]

I don't believe that the content score and the achievement score are intertwined, except for the fact that they are judged by the same judge. For the most part, one is not rooted in the other. Both sub captions have exclusive criteria for the number given.

Yes, most of the time the Ach score is lower...but that is more likely because at this point in the season, the corps are still a little dirty and getting cleaner all the time. The Achievement numbers are based on fundamentals of playing and how well those fundamentals are being executed. Here is the criteria for the Achievement portion of the score for brass:

• Quality of tone
• Accuracy of pitch and intonation
• Precision of Rhythmic accuracy and timing
• Clarity and uniformity of style, interpretation, and articulation
• Balance and Blend
• Expressiveness and Musicianship
• Precision of content with respect to challenge

The last point above is further explained:

• Considering all challenges, do the performers demonstrate expressive qualities and musicianship?

Most corps' design teams know the level to which they must write and compose which will give their corps the best chance to max out both numbers within their competitive goals. So, USUALLY you will see the content score to be higher, and as the season progresses and by the end of the season, the Achievement score should come up to equal it.

I also think that since the same judge gives both numbers, it's in the back of their head that they must be somewhat close in number, and Achievement shouldn't be higher...but that's just an educated guess.

IN a case where the Achievement is higher, that seems to me that it's just a corps that is outperforming the other corps in terms of those basic fundamentals listed above.

But...this is just my take on it. I'm sure many disagree.

[Ghost]

IN a case where the Achievement is higher, that seems to me that it's just a corps that is outperforming the other corps in terms of those basic fundamentals listed above.

Could this result also mean the members could handle harder material?

[3rd Glasgow BB]

I have seen it on occasion, it was Blue Stars percussion scores from last night that made me wonder about the logic behind it.

Content 84, Achievement 86.

To me it says "these kids can really play, keep an eye on them"....

[perc2100]

Could this result also mean the members could handle harder material?

This is quite the touchy suggestion: the only people who know what members can handle are the people who designed for them, saw them in the winter, see them 24/7 on tour, etc. It is generally a no-no for a judge to suggest to designers/staff that the members are playing a book that's "too easy for them," or that "the material could be harder."

A judge could say that their book does not have as much depth, isn't as musical, doesn't have the range or varying/contrasting styles as their competition. But on the rare occasions I've heard of a judge telling someone their members could play harder music the director/staffer/designer (whomever) rightfully lit the judge up for saying it.

[perc2100]

The achievement score being greater than content can actually happen. It sometimes gets misinterpreted.

Content, of course, is the material you've been given (brass book, percussion book, guard routines, drill, etc.). The score here is more about the quality of your book, the demand within that book, whether or not it makes sense, etc.

Achievement is how the members are performing that specific area (brass book, etc.). So achievement has more to do with how the members are actually performing and content has more to do with what they've been given.

It gets explained different ways, but that's the gist.

It has typically been assumed that if your achievement score is greater than your content score that you are OUT-PERFORMING your book. Now, in reality I doubt this is true. Such rationale would almost assume that the book was performed perfectly, which isn't true.

To get a more appropriate understanding you want to think of Content as having a ceiling. Let's use the brass performance caption as an example. Let's say that there are 6 boxes for brass content based on demand and artistry (what the performers are being asked to do). They are Very Easy, Easy, Medium Easy, Medium, Medium Difficult, and Difficult. The judge determines that your book is Medium Easy. ME books can garner you points no higher than from 60-69. Where you land will depend on how effective the construction is. If you want a chance to get into the 90 percentile for that caption you will need a book in Box 6 (Difficult), worth 90-100.

So there is a ceiling on how many points you can garner based on your brass book in this case. It's a Medium Easy book, and because of this it has a max number of points it can garner unless you make changes to increase demand, artistry, flow, exposure to error, endurance, range, etc.

However, the performance of the brass line while on the field could be judged to be fairly high. The question many have had over the years was this: If your Content score is say a 68, is it possible to score higher for actual achievement (performance) of that book?

* Some feel that your highest possible performance score should be no higher than your Content score. And in most cases it would be lower.

** Others think (and I fall into this camp) that you can outperform your book because in reality we are judging TWO DIFFERENT captions, but sadly we are grouping them via sub-captions into one brass performance score.

I would have no problem saying this: You are performing a MEDIUM EASY brass book at nearly 85% proficiency. So the sub-caption scores might be Content: 67, Achievement: 85.

This would actually help give more credit to the actual marching member on the field, and it still encourages the staff to make changes.

One of the reasons we do not see such disparity between the two is because early-season performance levels are typically going to be lower than the content, and the staff is always making changes so the content score keeps changing as well.

I am simplifying this some, but that's the gist of things. Usually when a brass line (or whatever the caption) begins to outperform their book, the instructors step in a make adjustments to the book.

Theoretically though, if a corps made NO changes to their brass book all summer and they were given a 55 in Content (Easy for example), yet come their last show of the season the brass line absolutely nailed the book, you should be able to see a score of Content: 55, Achievement: 97.

But the system really doesn't work that way, in part because we also have to factor the spread between your achievement and those you compete with. So the last phase of this system is comparison and starting point. Whoever performs first sets the bar from which spreads will either go up or down. This is where the system becomes confusing and also highly debatable. Many people say the judges shouldn't compare one corps to the next. Just judge them on their own merit. But others say they have to compare because it's competition and the better brass line must receive a better achievement number, even if their content is roughly the same.

Not easy to be a DCI judge.

To add to this good explanation, often early season a designer's intent is often grey at best, if not unreadable. This is due to early season performance issues (i.e. the section is dirty so the judge can't tell with 100% certainty what is going on with the book). As the section cleans up throughout the season, the design intent comes into focus, is much more readable, and likewise is given more credit.

Also, early season, there could be a lot of musical phrasing that is lacking. Often units will add shaping (crescendos, diminuendos, maybe putting ritardandos in to let the music 'breathe' or for more effect, etc) as the season progresses. Nuance and subtlety of orchestration becomes a lot clearer when execution gets better.

It is always interesting how often the performance & design captions line up so closes score-wise, but also placement wise. It would seem logical that there would be far more variation in subcaption placements, and whenever I judge it's always cool (IMO) to see recaps where placements are all over the place in sub-captions. Often that can be attributed to consistency (a great line means a designer can write a book that hits all the points on the sheets while a less-achieving line is limited in what they can execute and thus has a more limited book), and sometimes it can be chalked up to a judge's numbers management (or to be more apt, probably a little of both).

[perc2100]

I have seen it on occasion, it was Blue Stars percussion scores from last night that made me wonder about the logic behind it.

Content 84, Achievement 86.

To me it says "these kids can really play, keep an eye on them"....

There are definitely times when a design is underwhelming in relation to how the members are executing. Sometimes the designers play it safe, and hope that design elements and execution help to make up for lacking depth, effect, and/or difficulty. There are plenty of reasons why the two subcaptions don't always line up.

[drumcat]

The main drawback with this system, and this is my personal opinion, is the process a judge goes through.

Q1 How did I like the book. Grade content.Q2 How did the kids do? Subtract 0.1 to 0.8 from first score.

Over 93% of judge sheets have the two scores even or the first number higher, yet the definition is supposed to be independent. It just isn't. The statistical correlation and dependence upon the first number makes that score much more influential than I think even judges know.

I liked X's book 8.5, but the kids were a little behind it, so 7.7.I liked Y's book 8.0 and the kids rocked it, so 8.0 also.

Corps X wins.

Is that right? I don't know, but the judges seem to all say they aren't related... The math and the practicality seems highly connected.

Again, my personal belief is that if judges were asked to evaluate the performance first, and the composition second, the human thinking would become more independent between the two concepts. In fact, why are execution judges giving two numbers this way? I'd prefer one number.

[jwillis35]

Let me use the brass caption as an example (again). I would prefer to see the activity think of it this way:

Content = 1 - 100; this is more of a quality scale. The judges are looking at the quality of the book. You would really think of it this way: 1 - 10. Anything in the 4's is easy (and lower is very easy), 5's is medium easy, 6's would be medium, 7's would be medium difficult, 8's would be difficult, 9's would be very difficult.

Achievement = 1 - 100; these are percentage points. Here the judges are gauging your brass line's ability to perform their book by assigning a percentage to it (more like a classroom grade). Corps X is performing their book at a C- level, or 68%. Something like that.

This way it would be more likely to keep the two sub-captions separate and not related.

EXAMPLE: Early Season Scores

• Corps A: Brass Cont: 55, Brass Achv: 75 = 130 or 13.0;
  
• Corps B: Brass Cont: 72, Brass Achv: 50 = 122 or 12.2;
  
• Corps C: Brass Cont: 85, Brass Achv: 71 = 156 or 15.6;
  

Placements: C, A, B

Corps B has better content, but they are not playing their book well, and corps A may have an easier book, but right now they are clearly playing better. They deserve the higher overall score.

Corps C clearly has better content and they are performing a pretty demanding book fairly well for beginning of the season.

I wish we saw more of this because I think our ears hear this very naturally.

Edited July 26, 2013 by jwillis35