Gender Inequality

[hornandsoccer]

SCV DID have an all-male hornline until sometime in the early 80s. It's still a sore point in Vanguard history for a lot of people.

It is what it is. It's a performance activity, and the groups can choose whatever criteria they like. Just because you're some super-vet doesn't mean your position will exist next year (see also: Madison cymbal line circa 2010.) Nothing's guaranteed.

[kckempf]

I think it's a non-issue. Corps can do whatever they want with membership requirements. The organizations have that right. Obviously, most choose a gender-neutral policy. It's easier.

Phantom's all-female guard originated from a different era, but it's become a tradition that works for them.

If you want to talk about real gender inequality, bring up the almost total absence of female directors/program coordinators (one female director in all of World Class).

This is the real issue. There's a pretty good mix of genders on the field overall, with only a few corps that have any gender restrictions of any sort. There are a few instruments where the gender ratios are really off, but that's less of a problem in drum corps than in youth music in general. The real problem is that it's almost all music made by men being used to tell stories written by men, brought to you by a male director. I expect that to change as more women continue their involvement with the corps, but given the ratios over time you would have expected more by now.

Not that I have any ideas about how to fix it. Those who are in a position to promote women through leadership should bear in mind that there are qualified female candidates, more than anything.

[soccerguy315]

Maybe a different program would call for different talent. Male talent, possibly.

If the all female guard is the reason that Phantom does the same show OVER AND OVER AND OVER... then they should add males to their guard ASAP.

[skywhopper]

Maybe Madison should take over Phantom's all-girl guard. That would solve a couple of issues.

[BRASSO]

If the all female guard is the reason that Phantom does the same show OVER AND OVER AND OVER... then they should add males to their guard ASAP.

I look at it a bit differently... if Phantom does the same Percussion Placement OVER AND OVER AND OVER... then they should add all females to their drumline ASAP. ( ok, so its a bit of hyperbole, but you get the point)

Since we talking about gender here with the Phantom Regiment, lets be honest here guys.... its the females that have been carrying their weight in Phantom Regiment more than the males the last few years. Phantom Regiments all female Guard has finished 4th, 2nd, and 3rd the last 3 years. The mixed gender, but mostly male, Percussion section a subpar ( by Phantom Regiment standards ), 9th, 7th, 7th. Phantom Regiment's all female Guard is their strong suit. That doesn't need fixing in my view. Why fix whats not broke ? Phantom needs to fix their drumline, and its not primarily the females there that are holding the drumline back. Its not the females that are designing the drum parts, nor the females doing the percussion tech instruction. Sorry guys, but its not primarily the females afiliated with Phantom Regiment that has them where they are. If the issue is gender, its clear who has been carrying their weight there and who has not by contrast.

Edited August 12, 2013 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

The real problem is that it's almost all music made by men being used to tell stories written by men, brought to you by a male director. I expect that to change as more women continue their involvement with the corps, but given the ratios over time you would have expected more by now.

Good observation. Of all the Corps in World Class and Open Class, how many have Corps Directors that are female ? My guess, the numbers are are so few that its appalling. DCI Drum Corps needs to come into the 21st century here and have more Women assuming top leadership roles with these Corps at the Directorship levels. Whats holding them back ? Somehow we believe they're not capable enough ? This is 2013, not 1957. We say we want change, want diversity, want progress, and so forth. I see no valid reason at all why we have such few Woman serving as Corps Directors in DCI. Its high time DCI Corps come into the 21st century here and not be so backwards when it comes to the elevation of Woman to Executive Directorships of World Class and Open Class Corps. ( ok, off my soapbox now.. )

Edited August 12, 2013 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

Good observation. Of all the Corps in World Class and Open Class, how many have Corps Directors that are female ? My guess, the numbers are are so few that its appalling. DCI Drum Corps needs to come into the 21st century here and have more Women assuming top leadership roles with these Corps at the Directorship levels. Whats holding them back ? Somehow we believe they're not capable enough ? This is 2013, not 1957. We say we want change, want diversity, want progress, and so forth. I see no valid reason at all why we have such few Woman serving as Corps Directors in DCI.

im not going to open this can of worms BUT there are unbelieveable female administrators with corps as well as great female staff BUT ive seen over and over hiring female staff ( great female staff by the way ) I can tell you ( oh Boy , I'm gonna be sorry I said this ) ask another female who they would rather be taught by a guy or another female. hmmmmm,,,,,, now that isn't fair and have unfortunately left many females behind. I have seen so many staff with LESS talented males prevail over more talented females.

There are great females who would make great directors also. Just look at alot of food truck workers, many females. Pull that off and youre pretty #### good .

look at some of the female great staffers in the activity,very talented BUT very few. AS you said NO valid reason but theres for sure reasons why this happens......Funny this was brought up John Stossell did a show on FOX ( UGH FOX )lol...on this very subject just last night. So although it's 2013 it's still an issue in many walks of life.

[BRASSO]

im not going to open this can of worms BUT there are unbelieveable female administrators with corps as well as great female staff BUT ive seen over and over hiring female staff ( great female staff by the way ) I can tell you ( oh Boy , I'm gonna be sorry I said this ) ask another female who they would rather be taught by a guy or another female. hmmmmm,,,,,, now that isn't fair and have unfortunately left many females behind. I have seen so many staff with LESS talented males prevail over more talented females.

There are great females who would make great directors also. Just look at alot of food truck workers, many females. Pull that off and youre pretty #### good .

look at some of the female great staffers in the activity,very talented BUT very few. AS you said NO valid reason but theres for sure reasons why this happens......Funny this was brought up John Stossell did a show on FOX ( UGH FOX )lol...on this very subject just last night. So although it's 2013 it's still an issue in many walks of life.

The examples you illustrated shows how much work needs to be done to eliminate sexist, discriminatory practices in DCI. We can't always cotrol what others, outside DCI do, but DCI does have the capacity to end Discrimination in all its forms within the activity itself. If males are being promoted over more talented, more capable females at the staff or Directorship levels, by virtue of gender alone, we have a name for this : Its called Discrimination.

Edited August 12, 2013 by BRASSO

[MikeD]

The examples you illustrated shows how much work needs to be done to eliminate sexist, discriminatory practices in DCI. We can't comtrol what others, outside DCI do, but DCI does have the capacity to end Discrimination in all its forms within the activity itself. If males are being promoted over more talented females at the staff or Directorship levels, by virtue of gender alone, we have a name for this : Its called Discrimination.

DCI does not exert control over hiring/firing of the individual corps. The corps boards have to make any such decisions. There are great females out there, so I think we'll see it happen in the not-so-distant future, and of course, it will be long overdue. There are more female band directors coming along than back in the day which will help. The young woman I work for with the band I teach is a prime example of an EXCELLENT band director who just completed her second year at the school (no gender qualification necessary)...who also marched Cadets and Bucs, and taught Surf and now teaches C2 (visual tech with both).

[GUARDLING]

The examples you illustrated shows how much work needs to be done to eliminate sexist, discriminatory practices in DCI. We can't always cotrol what others, outside DCI do, but DCI does have the capacity to end Discrimination in all its forms within the activity itself. If males are being promoted over more talented, more capable females at the staff or Directorship levels, by virtue of gender alone, we have a name for this : Its called Discrimination.

its not so much being passed over what I have seen but many males just seem to sustain and that alone pushes them ahead.

Ive said many times if females would just support each other they would give themselves much more oppurtunities. After summer when I go to band and winter guard programs there are alot of females, just ask them who they would rather be taught by...sad but very true. of course thats not in all cases BUT when I hire a new female staffer I also have to defend the woman and the sad part Im defending and supporting her to other females.................but again youre right it would be nice to see a female director. I would love to see the differences in running a corps

Edited August 12, 2013 by GUARDLING