Two questions about G bugles.

[alumniof]

What would happen if any of the top 12 corps came out on G bugles.....everything being the same....talent, performance, show concept and performance....what happens to that score? Do you gain in GE what you lose inusic for intonation? Is that all they could go after and us there some leway for the intonation being inherent in the horn? I'm thinking you can only penalize a group so much for intonation that would it ultimately not be that big if a deal if everything else stayed the same.

Second u read a long time ago somewhere about something with Downey working with King to....forgive me because its bbeen awhile since I read it....redo the GS into better intonation ad to return to them or maybe it was turning the Bob to a bugle.....something like that. Does that ring any kind of a bell?

[alumniof]

Geez...my android sucks. Sorry for all the typos.

[OC Euph]

A good player won't have intonation issues with G's. With that being said, it's for sure harder as a group to keep that good tone quality. BUT #### I love playing them. 2004 oregon cruasaders we played G's, and for only 30 horns, we sounded MASSIVE.

[Tad_MMA]

Basically, the Gs were getting harder and harder to keep repaired, and less were being made. There were (literally) hundreds more corps in the 70s, and all those horns were recycled into the DCI pot as the corps disappeared. So the switch wasn't nec. to Bb... it was "any key." Bb is just easiest to obtain.

Intonation? Go back and listen to some of the greats. BD's T.O in '82., Cadets' Jeremiah in '85, Suncoast Sound's Adventures in Time in '86, Phantom's New World Symphony in '89 to name a quick few (all of those on TWO-VALVED Gs). Listen to the first High Brass Trophy winner in the Bb era: 2000 Cadets had intonation problems in the last push. They sure as hell didn't when they blasted through '85's "Candide" at 192 bmp. Another to relive is Cadets 1983. They had NO money and probably the crappiest set of horns in the top 12 (certainly the top 6). Best of luck finding a single out of tune tone.

I've said it 1,000 times: I prefer the brightness of the G harmonics over the minor 6th drop to the Bb harmonics. Fine for bands, but find that YT video titled something like "Before DCI Needed Amplification." Those are all G.

[burgerbob]

There is no reason for a corps to go back to Gs.

Members, staff, none of them want to.

[perc2100]

What would happen if any of the top 12 corps came out on G bugles.....everything being the same....talent, performance, show concept and performance....what happens to that score? Do you gain in GE what you lose inusic for intonation? Is that all they could go after and us there some leway for the intonation being inherent in the horn? I'm thinking you can only penalize a group so much for intonation that would it ultimately not be that big if a deal if everything else stayed the same.

I suspect the top corps wouldn't have too many problems with intonation: Gino Cipriani, Donnie VanDoren, John Meehan have all taught incredible horn lines who played G horns. I think you'd more likely notice the difference on the middle and especially lower end of the talent spectrum. Part of the "fun" of marching a G horn was learning different fingerings from the instruments you were used to playing in HS or college. The best of the best were able to adjust because, well, they're the best. Others struggled a bit, and I think that now that we haven't had to worry about G bugles in, what, over a decade it would be a much harder sell & transition.

I'm not sure GE would account so much for G or any-key brass: great playing = great playing, poor intonation will kill any Music sheets involving brass (Brass, MA, GE Music) regardless of instrumentation or key.

Also, I've heard from directors and designers in the late 90's that the push to move to any key was more of a financial one, as someone else has already mentioned. Blue Devils were winning brass in the late 90's on G horns but still pushing for any key: it's not like BD was afraid that G's were holding them back at all

Second u read a long time ago somewhere about something with Downey working with King to....forgive me because its bbeen awhile since I read it....redo the GS into better intonation ad to return to them or maybe it was turning the Bob to a bugle.....something like that. Does that ring any kind of a bell?

That I don't know. Was that before the switch to any key, maybe? I can't imagine there would be ANY need for that now with only 30ish drum corps, most of which (if not all) would not switch back to G. Scholastic programs, of course, will stick with traditional instrumentation as they have for quote awhile: band directors would not consider switching their instruments over to G brass just to maybe play a little louder (at the expense of intonation and easy playability vs kids having to switch instruments and learned fingerings from marching-concert season).

[Tad_MMA]

There's something in the corner of my brain that remembers Cadets and BD being the first two corps to replace their horns in 2000. They finished 1, 2 that year in horns. But I also think that was Gino's first year doing Cadets.

Please correct if any of this isn't right!!! (The 1,2 finish is correct.)

[alumniof]

There is no reason for a corps to go back to Gs.

Members, staff, none of them want to.

I can't hear the horn line....it doesn't penetrate or excite the audience. Have you ever heard G?

[geluf]

I can't hear the horn line....it doesn't penetrate or excite the audience. Have you ever heard G?

If you can't hear current hornlines I think you might have a different problem.

[Northern Thunder]

it doesn't penetrate or excite

That's what she said.