drilltech1 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Fred, please....I think you're being sensitive (for whatever reason) about labels. If you want to be "real"....DCA is considered "minor league" to DCI. For the very reason you mentioned - practice time, budgets, etc;. It's a very fair statement because it's reality. It is what it is. Doesn't mean it doesn't have merit or validity, it's just in perspective to the comparison. The kids, talent - is not the issue - or how they are as people or how hard they work. The structure, the show designs, direction - what BOTH DCI and DCA are doing and not doing as a single voice from 250 plus million people in the US. A good solution to people behinds in the seats are WC, OC, WC, OC, WC, OC. Scramble the order (TOC does) and people will sit. Plus, it helps with logistics and souvenier, concession sales (gotta pee and don't want to miss. Want to get nachos, extra cheese and skittles without missing a corps). Not everyone is going to get a hotdog and therefore OC get's exposure. It's about the forest not the trees. If you're a DCA fan, you will always be one - but - wouldn't you like to see other people besides DCA fans in the seats TO BECOME FANS? Am I wrong to imagine that you, Freedom, have never actually/professionally ever judged a drum corps contest? You wipe out 40 years of numbers management/assessment discussion by the judges and corps which has found that more accurate scoring comparisons occur when corps of similar talent and complexity compete as a group. This prevents a judge holding numbers down until another corps competes later and also forestalls the fury of Monday-morning quarterbacking as happened with the Jackson, Mississippi championships when one drum judge canonized one line while still having most of the competitors yet to compete. There are many facets to this diamond. You have only considered one side of the triangle I fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 The implication I drew of such a later date (labor day weekend) was that summer was over, schools have begun. This is not true in California, the Mid-Atlantic states north of Maryland, the Northwest, and New England. Schools don't begin there in the middle of the summer as they do in Soybean country Indiana and the college-football driven South. From what I've seen public schools in Central PA mostly start week before Labor Day with some already in session (Harrisburg SD for one). Niece is a freshman at Appalachin State (NC) has moved in last week. Back in my day public schools started right after Labor Day and colleges were close around then except for Football and band camps. No longer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) DCA is not an answer or solution to DCI. Its an answer to age outs. Lets face it. Its a substitute IN THE EYES OF THE AVERAGE HS KID. HS want to see Crown and Blue Devils and Cavis and Phantom and Spirit and compete against them. They want to see the best at what they do. Kids want to be in DCI. Don't ya love it when one person speaks for everyone...... If anyone sees me laughing at DCA next week it will be because I am seeing HS and college agers on the field and thinking of what I clipped. I'm sure some of the younger people I will see would like or rather be in a DCI corps but they seem to be enjoying being an All Ager. s/ Guy who marched Sr corps aged 16-22 who liked watching DCI but Sr corps was a better fit... Edit: remembering in an era slightly after mine when youngsters joined my old corps to get seasoning, then did DCI, then came back... Edited August 20, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Am I wrong to imagine that you, Freedom, have never actually/professionally ever judged a drum corps contest? You wipe out 40 years of numbers management/assessment discussion by the judges and corps which has found that more accurate scoring comparisons occur when corps of similar talent and complexity compete as a group. This prevents a judge holding numbers down until another corps competes later and also forestalls the fury of Monday-morning quarterbacking as happened with the Jackson, Mississippi championships when one drum judge canonized one line while still having most of the competitors yet to compete. There are many facets to this diamond. You have only considered one side of the triangle I fear. Are you serious? Did I judge? I judge it every chance I see it as a member of the general public. Am I professionally hired, no. I don't see the relevance to what I'm talking about. Judging is so unimportant "to me" and I'm thinking the "general public". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Don't ya love it when one person speaks for everyone...... If anyone sees me laughing at DCA next week it will be because I am seeing HS and college agers on the field and thinking of what I clipped. I'm sure some of the younger people I will see would like or rather be in a DCI corps but they seem to be enjoying being an All Ager. s/ Guy who marched Sr corps aged 16-22 who liked watching DCI but Sr corps was a better fit... Edit: remembering in an era slightly after mine when youngsters joined my old corps to get seasoning, then did DCI, then came back... I think I've stated I'm one person with one voice with one opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) I think I've stated I'm one person with one voice with one opinion. But I don't see you expressing your opinion in what I quoted. On the contrary IMO you are saying what an entire group of others want/believe... (underlined) DCA is not an answer or solution to DCI. Its an answer to age outs. Lets face it. Its a substitute IN THE EYES OF THE AVERAGE HS KID. HS want to see Crown and Blue Devils and Cavis and Phantom and Spirit and compete against them. They want to see the best at what they do. Kids want to be in DCI. Edited August 20, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 But I don't see you expressing your opinion in what I quoted. On the contrary IMO you are saying what an entire group of others want/believe... (underlined) DCA is not an answer or solution to DCI. Its an answer to age outs. Lets face it. Its a substitute IN THE EYES OF THE AVERAGE HS KID. HS want to see Crown and Blue Devils and Cavis and Phantom and Spirit and compete against them. They want to see the best at what they do. Kids want to be in DCI. Everything you underlined is my opinion. I'm not following what you want from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Everything you underlined is my opinion. I'm not following what you want from me. Here is the entire post I clipped from... where are you stating this is your opinion? To me it sounds like you are stating facts. "DCA is not an answer or solution to DCI. Its an answer to age outs. Lets face it. Its a substitute IN THE EYES OF THE AVERAGE HS KID. HS want to see Crown and Blue Devils and Cavis and Phantom and Spirit and compete against them. They want to see the best at what they do. Let me think out loud if I am allowed to without giving my name, address and medical history to BluecoastBuc. Kids want to be in DCI. DCI is a deathtrap to upstart corps because of touring costs. How about turning open class into the BOA model where its the weekend regionals and championship at the end of the season. At finals week....Friday night would be the open class finals. Gives the Open Class an audience. Do away with semis in Worlds. Its unnecessary. I would do regionals where the World Class is the Allentown model......either Open Class on Friday night and World Class on Saturday night and then G7 on Sunday. Or do Open Class during the day...World at night. REGIONALS.....meaning unlike Allentown not everyone is there. This way Open Class and World Class can watch each other. Its about education and support for each other. The benefits are too long to illustrate." Edited August 20, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Are you sure of what you are saying here? The implication I drew of such a later date (labor day weekend) was that summer was over, schools have begun. This is not true in California... I Just checked the school calender for the Santa Clara Unified School District: Classes began for students on Aug 20 in 2012 and Aug 19 in 2013 (a few years ago they even began on the Monday just after DCI Finals). Do you want to restate your contention that this is not true for many schools California? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drilltech1 Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) I Just checked the school calender for the Santa Clara Unified School District: Classes began for students on Aug 20 in 2012 and Aug 19 in 2013 (a few years ago they even began on the Monday just after DCI Finals). Do you want to restate your contention that this is not true for many schools California? I will not get into the pissing contest you tend to try to draw others into whenever you post. My statements were generated by professional experiences of dealing with school districts there and elsewhere. You are correct that the school years seem to begin earlier each year. You and Jim Bari have presented exceptions to what I stated. One exception does not make a full class argument. And one weekend absence does not make a full school year. Further I would guess, no direct evidence except overheard conversations, that SCVC actually has few members from the actual city of Santa Clara and the district you cite. My conclusion still stands that an Open Class DCI corps who might not finacially afford the current DCI touring model might find other alternatives for competition viable to maintain the organization. Beyond that, go pee elsewhere. Edited August 20, 2013 by drilltech1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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