Narration -- Do designers think audiences are now more accepting?

[perc2100]

I totally agree...TOTALLY! thats why when someone nit picks a theme to death, quoting something from the original, the meaning of some deep dark place the author came from or a movement, I kind of chuckle a bit. I mentioned this before, even designers will take the flavor of something and then take creative licence with it.

Yeah, it really is like comic fans/nerds nitpicking film adaptions because they're not exactly like the comics, regardless of how well they "work" in context of the standalone film.

[perc2100]

If a dozen people ( DCI judges ) like a Corps utilization of narration in a show, it really doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. Since last year's DCI champion utilized significant narration in last year's winning show, can we expect more narration from more Corps in their shows this season from last season ?

If a lead duck goes into the water, and apparently likes the water... will the other ducks follow ? You tell me.

Again, out of that dozen judges, I would guess maybe a quarter of them, at best, would pay attention/seriously evaluate the vocals (GE Music judges + maybe Music Analysis - but maybe not MA). Crown won DCI for having an incredible brass ensemble, a Champion guard, and a strong visual design: very little of their success had to do with vocals.

[perc2100]

Narration is ALL about what is appealing to the judges. He or she takes nobody else's counsel. Its all what he or she likes or does not like regarding narration in the show. No judge afterall, is judging voice inflection, voice modulation, etc, nor any technical aspect of narration as they are with drums, brass, guard. Narration is almostly exclusively a " like or dislike " personal opinion evaluation by any judge that is judging the narration utilization in any of these Corps shows...... the same with the singers. No Judge is judging their singing voice, ie its technical components ( lets hope not, as most of these judges are neither trained, nor experienced in the Singing Voice... and they are too far away in the booth to judge it anyway ). So its ALL about its " like or dislike " re. narration ( and the singing ). Frankly,These DCi judges have no more advanced training , expertise, experience, qualifications, etc to" judge" Narration than anybody else thats simply over 12 years old on this board .

Hate to break it to ya, but EVERY aspect of DCI design is ALL about what is appealing to judges. There isn't a musical or visual phrase designed that isn't catering to judges in some way

[BRASSO]

logic behind some kind of asinine conspiracy seems slim/none

We agree. Anybody that thinks that there is a " conspiracy " afloat re. narration ( or even brings that " conspiracy " angle into this ) is acting ridiculous and has jumped the shark.

Edited April 29, 2014 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

). Crown won DCI for having an incredible brass ensemble, a Champion guard, and a strong visual design: very little of their success had to do with vocals.

You could be right in this speculation that Crown would have won last year without narration. But of course, this is mere speculation alone now, as nobody can say this with certainty one way or the other now, as narration was indeed a major component of their show performance last season. Had Crown utlized no narration, then its a certainty that their outstanding brass, music, drums, guard did it for them.. and without much dispute on this. However, the heavy use of narration throughout their show last season does lead to some degree of speculation as to whether orf not their brass, guard, drums catapulted them to their 1st DCI title., and whether or not they could have accomplished this Title without the heavy reliance on narration to sell their show to the judges sufficent enough to top other Corps closely behind them that did not utilize narration in their shows to the large extent that Crown did last summer.

Edited April 29, 2014 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

Glad I could clear that up for you.

Do you think that a judge that has a no degree in music is any more qualified to " judge " the singing voice or to " judge " narration in shows , than you or others on here ? And if so, please care to explain why ? What training does one need even in the music schools to prepare one to judge " narration " in music performance, anyway ? I know, its a silly question. But its even sillier to think that these DCI judges are more " qualified " to judge narration in shows than most people on this board over the age of 12. So the aspect of narration in DCI shows is ALL about whether the judges" like it or not" in the show performance.

dont really know where you are getting it from that I have said or questioned anyone,s qualifications , if i did say that somewhere i really didnt mean to

Edited April 29, 2014 by GUARDLING

[GUARDLING]

No, that is really not true. "Like" is not how a judge reacts to something being performed, be it narration, brass, percussion, guard, etc...a judge is supposed to evaluate how well the whataver-it-is impacts their particular sheet and its criteria, not whether or not the judge "likes" it. A judge can dislike the "whatever" on a personal preference level, yet still credit it with a great score.

exactly!

[GUARDLING]

To be honest, I have a bit of a problem with adjudicating simply on a "like/dislike" basis. I certainly agree that as much as we would prefer judges to be totally and completely without bias, they are human beings -- and as such, would suffer from a certain bias creeping into their thoughts, if only subconsciously. To compound this with their responsibility of attaching a number to that which they may subconsciously like/dislike only compounds my frustration in trying to understand the whole deal.

In addition to concerns whether an adjudicator is qualified (or not) to judge narration according to tone, inflection, etc., it may also be considered whether it is necessary for the adjudicator to be an accomplished "wordsmith." How extensive or comprehensive must that adjudicator's vocabulary be in order for him/her to be considered "qualified?" The world is full of English teachers (just think back to high school) who are quick to point out "this word" or "that word" would have been a better choice in our written efforts.

Sorry...I'm just having a difficult time in wrapping my mind around the whole issue of adjudicating narration -- not to mention doing so fairly, objectively, and with qualification.

you are right about Bias and hopefully most do not do this But as I said personal like or dislike is different from like or dislike when judging what is presented ( choice of the corps ) I have judged many bands , corps as well as winter programs, many shows I would NEVER do by choice but judged what was presented.

Edited April 29, 2014 by GUARDLING

[BRASSO]

Hate to break it to ya, but EVERY aspect of DCI design is ALL about what is appealing to judges.

hate to break it to ya, but I never stated to the contrary.

I merely stated that judges are equipped by training, experience, education, etc...... more so than the public at large... to judge the technical aspects of music playing, and its effects in the show. But that they have no more training, education, experience, etc than most people to " judge " the technical, nor the effects, of Narration in a show performance. What specialized training and education do Music Majors get in the proper ( or improper, or subpar utilization ) of Narration in music performance ?. Near as I can tell... none. So while the brass playing is subject to the trained ear of the music degreed judge, the narration is wholly, and completely in the realm of " like and dislike " on the part of these judges. Big difference, imo.

Edited April 29, 2014 by BRASSO

[perc2100]

hate to break it to ya, but I never stated to the contrary.

I merely stated that judges are equipped by training, experience, education, etc...... more so than the public at large... to judge the technical aspects of music playing, and its effects in the show. But that they have no more training, education, experience, etc than most people to " judge " the technical, nor the effects, of Narration in a show performance. What specialized training and education do Music Majors get in the proper ( or improper, or subpar utilization ) of Narration in music performance ?. Near as I can tell... none. So while the brass playing is subject to the trained ear of the music degreed judge, the narration is wholly, and completely in the realm of " like and dislike " on the part of these judges. Big difference, imo.

Maybe not explicitly, but I think it can be inferred when you say,

BRASSO, on 29 Apr 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Narration is ALL about what is appealing to the judges.

(emphasis/bolding mine, but caps of ALL yours).

As for your other assertion/assumption, without hearing any judging tapes to back up your guess, I couldn't really comment. I know that in winter percussion I have commented on appropriateness of narration if I thought a) it wasn't clearly spoken b) it didn't match the 'tone' of the music c) it wasn't audible d) it was TOO audible in the mix, etc. I don't recall ever commenting on the weak argument of "like or dislike" a design element.

While adjudicating narration isn't necessarily a class subject I took in the Music Education degree program, critical thinking was. Being trained to adjudicate, you are trained to evaluate critically FAR beyond the "like" or even "why do you dislike something" manner. So while I don't think someone with a music degree would definitely be a better evaluator of narration than someone on DCP, I do think a trained DCI judge would be a better evaluator than someone on DCP because of their training and experience.