Tim K Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 My inclination is to say no. Of the 22 WC corps, 19 of them have stronger shows than last year, one is pretty close, two are not their best efforts. Personally, there are many qualities for each corps and this may be the first time in nearly 40 years of following drum corps I can honestly say I enjoyed every show. I also don't remember a top five group that is as phenomenal as the group that will most likely be this year' stop five. Now while Blue Devils seem to have the top show in a stellar year, and I really love it which is not something I always say about BD, I'm not sure it us special enough to be a record breaker. It could be, and in this season of surprises anything can happen, but I don't see it as a given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) I'd just like to point out that a 99.2, for example, is only relative to the year and the competition they face. Any score is, for that matter. Would you put the 2002 Cavs up against the 2005 Cadets? Which corps was better?? And if the BD happen to tie that, could you put them against the other two? It's kinda hard to do that. What I would be more impressed with is a corps that beats their competition by a wider margin than has happened before. I'm not sure what those historic margins are, but since I'm kinda bored, I guess I'll go and check that out. brb. EDIT: Here we go. 1973 Vanguard 88.65 Troopers 86.15 Margin : 2.5 pts 1976 Blue Devils 92.7 Scouts 90.7 Margin: 2 pts 1977 Blue Devils 92.05 Phantom 90.3 Margin : 1.75 1982 Blue Devils 95.25 Vanguard 93.55 Margin : 1.70 2002 Cavaliers 99.15 Blue Devs 97.3 Margin: 1.85 2003 Blue Devs 98.80 Cavaliers 97.25 Margin: 1.55 2005 Cadets 99.15 Cavaliers 97.625 Margin: 1.525 2009 Blue Devs 99.05 Crown 97.5 Margin: 1.55 So I guess it looks like the most dominant corps, according to the judges who judge the Finals are the following: 1973 Vanguard 88.65 Troopers 86.15 Margin : 2.5 pts 1976 Blue Devils 92.7 Scouts 90.7 Margin: 2 pts 2002 Cavaliers 99.15 Blue Devs 97.3 Margin: 1.85 Even the 2005 Cadets only won by 1.525 So I guess in the relatively modern era, the 2002 Cavaliers and their Frameworks show was the most dominant Finals performance we've seen. The Blue Devs beat Cadets in Allentown by 1.675 pts. They did NOT perform on the same night. At Rutgers, Blue Devs beat Cadets by 2.3 points, in a TOC show. TOC shows are judged a little differently from normal competitions, I'm pretty sure. They beat them in Atlanta by 1.4 points. I could go on and average out the entire margins of victories from every Finals performance since 1972, but I'm not THAT bored. I'll let someone else do that :-P I guess if the Blue Devs can beat Cadets by more than 1.85, then it will be the most dominant corps in modern history. If they score 99.2 and Cadets (or Bluecoats) score 97.4, then they have the high score record, but still wasn't as dominating as Cavaliers 2002. So if you're worried about Blue Devs breaking a record, there's still another record to fall back on. Edited August 3, 2014 by BoyWonder1911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniper282000 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I'd just like to point out that a 99.2, for example, is only relative to the year and the competition they face. Any score is, for that matter. Would you put the 2002 Cavs up against the 2005 Cadets? Which corps was better?? And if the BD happen to tie that, could you put them against the other two? It's kinda hard to do that. What I would be more impressed with is a corps that beats their competition by a wider margin than has happened before. I'm not sure what those historic margins are, but since I'm kinda bored, I guess I'll go and check that out. brb. EDIT: Here we go. 1973 Vanguard 88.65 Troopers 86.15 Margin : 2.5 pts 1976 Blue Devils 92.7 Scouts 90.7 Margin: 2 pts 1977 Blue Devils 92.05 Phantom 90.3 Margin : 1.75 1982 Blue Devils 95.25 Vanguard 93.55 Margin : 1.70 2002 Cavaliers 99.15 Blue Devs 97.3 Margin: 1.85 2003 Blue Devs 98.80 Cavaliers 97.25 Margin: 1.55 2005 Cadets 99.15 Cavaliers 97.625 Margin: 1.525 2009 Blue Devs 99.05 Crown 97.5 Margin: 1.55 So I guess it looks like the most dominant corps, according to the judges who judge the Finals are the following: 1973 Vanguard 88.65 Troopers 86.15 Margin : 2.5 pts 1976 Blue Devils 92.7 Scouts 90.7 Margin: 2 pts 2002 Cavaliers 99.15 Blue Devs 97.3 Margin: 1.85 Even the 2005 Cadets only won by 1.525 So I guess in the relatively modern era, the 2002 Cavaliers and their Frameworks show was the most dominant Finals performance we've seen. The Blue Devs beat Cadets in Allentown by 1.675 pts. They did NOT perform on the same night. At Rutgers, Blue Devs beat Cadets by 2.3 points, in a TOC show. TOC shows are judged a little differently from normal competitions, I'm pretty sure. They beat them in Atlanta by 1.4 points. I could go on and average out the entire margins of victories from every Finals performance since 1972, but I'm not THAT bored. I'll let someone else do that :-P I guess if the Blue Devs can beat Cadets by more than 1.85, then it will be the most dominant corps in modern history. If they score 99.2 and Cadets (or Bluecoats) score 97.4, then they have the high score record, but still wasn't as dominating as Cavaliers 2002. So if you're worried about Blue Devs breaking a record, there's still another record to fall back on. Good stuff. But i will say this, i think BD has way more competition behind them than Cavies had in 2002. Cavies was the only show in 2002 that was championship worthy. This year there is 3 shows that could win it all, maybe 4 shows? So for BD to be dominating this field is incredible to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I don't think so. Both Cadets and Coats, even Crown, have shows that are not gold-medal worthy this year, at least to me. I would also say the same about 2002. I will say this. 2010 Blue Devils were dominant. They won Finals over the Cavs by 1.15 points, with a high score of 98.9, but the Blue Devils were dominant. I remember watching that season in Atlanta (I toured that year as a volunteer for a finalist corps, as well as 2011, so I was able to see quite a bit of competitions), and the Blue Devs were just on another planet. They won Atlanta regional over the Bluecoats by 1.9 points. Again, this was 2010. I hated the mirrors, didn't think they added anything to the show, but man, musically they were just on another level. They also beat Crown in 2012 Finals by 1.05, but again, I still thought the BDevs were just on another realm. Crown was pretty good, really nice show, but no. I guess we'll see what happens next weekend. My guess is that The Cadets and Bluecoats will be so close in score, that the judges will be giving them like 9.7 and 9.7, without having to put one 9.7 and one 9.8, then putting Devs at 9.9 and 10.00. I guess what I'm saying is that the closeness of Cadets and Coats will keep the Devs from getting even higher margins. I'm seeing a score from the Blue Devs like 98.9 - 99.00 but I don't quite think it's the right environment for them to be getting anything higher. Percussion and Brass are still up for grabs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaxmanSilver Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 You bring up an interesting point, BoyWonder. Sometimes it's not how good you are. It's how much better you are than your competition... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaxmanSilver Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 HAVE AT YE!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 As to whether one corps of one year could compete against another and win, it really is irrelevant unless its an identical and scoring sheets, and even then it might not matter. A record breaking score can in many ways just be about bragging rights. I know a man who was part of a relay team in high school. The team broke the record for the state and it went unbroken for almost fifty years. Some of the runners who came after his team were collegiate champions and one even medaled in the Olympics. He loved talking about how even a future Olympic athlete could not have beaten his team. In drum corps where we have had various scoring sheets over the years, standard that have varied, and now better quality instruments, breaking the record is really about bragging rights and not the quality of the show. That being said, if you are marching in one of this year's top five corps, you have plenty of reason to brag regardless of whether the highest score ever threshold is broken or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catan Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) I don't think so. Both Cadets and Coats, even Crown, have shows that are not gold-medal worthy this year, at least to me. I would also say the same about 2002. I will say this. 2010 Blue Devils were dominant. They won Finals over the Cavs by 1.15 points, with a high score of 98.9, but the Blue Devils were dominant. I remember watching that season in Atlanta (I toured that year as a volunteer for a finalist corps, as well as 2011, so I was able to see quite a bit of competitions), and the Blue Devs were just on another planet. They won Atlanta regional over the Bluecoats by 1.9 points. Again, this was 2010. I hated the mirrors, didn't think they added anything to the show, but man, musically they were just on another level. They also beat Crown in 2012 Finals by 1.05, but again, I still thought the BDevs were just on another realm. Crown was pretty good, really nice show, but no. I guess we'll see what happens next weekend. My guess is that The Cadets and Bluecoats will be so close in score, that the judges will be giving them like 9.7 and 9.7, without having to put one 9.7 and one 9.8, then putting Devs at 9.9 and 10.00. I guess what I'm saying is that the closeness of Cadets and Coats will keep the Devs from getting even higher margins. I'm seeing a score from the Blue Devs like 98.9 - 99.00 but I don't quite think it's the right environment for them to be getting anything higher. Percussion and Brass are still up for grabs. I pretty much agree with all aspects of this post. I remember seeing the top 3 live at semis in 2010 after I had performed, I was blown away by Bloo and Cavies, then Devs came on and it felt like a whole new level of performance. Same deal this year. Edited August 3, 2014 by Catan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BieberTpt Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Who says BD will win... Actually it just asks if BD will break 99.15. You seem to be adding the winning part! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BieberTpt Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 You bring up an interesting point, BoyWonder. Sometimes it's not how good you are. It's how much better you are than your competition... This ^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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