garfield Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Very well stated, particularly your discussion on parity. I obviously disagree, but I can certainly see where you're coming from. Parity (and the word itself) has come up before within DCI BOD discussions, but I can only reference years ago when I sat at some of those meetings. Anyway, I think that a competitive circuit itself can and perhaps should have something to say in the matter. For example (perhaps not the best, but..), years ago (and perhaps it's still in place), a marching member couldn't jump from one corps to another at any time they wished if they had an outstanding financial debt to the organization they were leaving. Why would a circuit put something like that rule in place? What concern would the receiving organization have about a transactional issue that does not involve them? There was a "greater good" spirit behind that agreed upon rule. Are there other examples that people can share? Please excuse me, but DCI's obligation is to the financial health of the member corps. Why WOULDN'T DCI put such a rule in place. The receiving corps isn't even involved in the process until the kid pays his dues to the last corps. If the kids knows he can't try out at the other corps until his debt is paid, the "receiving corps" wouldn't ever know about it. DCI, as the central "clearing corp" for corps is the logical enforcer of this rule. That is a GREAT and sound rule to protect the financial stability of a member corps. I'd be interested in your version of a solution to the problem. My mind is open to a better solution if you have one. Edited February 7, 2015 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) I deleted a reply to one of your earlier posts on this topic, but I think this is your error. The competitive nature of drum corps is for the benefit of the corps themselves and a few rabid fans, like those on this thread. To the vast majority of fans who buy tickets and attend shows it's not a competition, it's a performance. The nature of the "circuit" is NOT, and never has been, to produce a competition. It is to produce a performance. The nuance is small but important. Kids come to see BD and SCV and Scouts and Crossmen, not to see which one of them will win. Data collected confirms that depth of experience and length of participation does not support a competition-focused strategy of design or schedule. Shows sell tickets - competitions sell fewer tickets. This admonition has been apparent in recent years with an emphasis on effect captions instead of the execution captions in judging. O.K....then let me ask a stupid question: If the nature of the "circuit" is NOT, and never has been, to produce a competition.." -- then why does DCI insist upon a philosophy of "placement" in its group "performances"? Edited February 7, 2015 by HornTeacher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I deleted a reply to one of your earlier posts on this topic, but I think this is your error. The competitive nature of drum corps is for the benefit of the corps themselves and a few rabid fans, like those on this thread. To the vast majority of fans who buy tickets and attend shows it's not a competition, it's a performance. The nature of the "circuit" is NOT, and never has been, to produce a competition. It is to produce a performance. The nuance is small but important. Kids come to see BD and SCV and Scouts and Crossmen, not to see which one of them will win. Data collected confirms that depth of experience and length of participation does not support a competition-focused strategy of design or schedule. Shows sell tickets - competitions sell fewer tickets. This admonition has been apparent in recent years with an emphasis on effect captions instead of the execution captions in judging. I agree about perfomance but I also do know for sure no matter what people do say that competition in inbedded in us and this activity, otherwise why the multitude discussions over and oever who makes finals who wins , whos going to top who. It's there and always has been. BITD it for sure was a competition 1st . ( IMO ) An audience member was also called a spectator to the competition ( not a participant in any form ) Now the view on this i admit can or may be very different depending on where one may have been sitting or participating in the activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 The answer lies in the recognition that success does not mean placement in this activity. The question is: Who needs to accept or be reminded of that fact?...,,.. Oh, I don't know, but 7 corps come to mind that one could say from time to time might need to " be reminded of this fact" . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Is it necessary to come to an understanding of the difference between fairness and parity? Life isn't fair. Anyone disagree? Assuming not, let's try to move beyond that misguided The central questions are: Are things as we wish? Is there any cause for concern? Is there room for growth? Should there be discussion surrounding benefits of parity possibilities? What would parity look like in an activity like ours? What are the pros and cons? Etc.... . These are very good questions . But if there is no appetite on the part of DCI to change then it's really a mute point and not worth one ' s time nor breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I'm sure it may have been said before but ( and just asking ) are you in favor of everyone gets a trophy and goes home happy? Just askin. Absolutely, No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 thanks for the response.Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 O.K....then let me ask a stupid question: If the nature of the "circuit" is NOT, and never has been, to produce a competition.." -- then why does DCI insist upon a philosophy of "placement" in its group "performances"? Umm, sorry, I thought this was obvious. Because of the payout structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Umm, sorry, I thought this was obvious. Because of the payout structure. Thank you...fair enough. So, the official position then becomes "We're going to pay you according to the following competition "payout structure"...even though, in essence, there is no actual "competition"...but rather, a "performance"? O.K. -- I get it. Thank you for the explanation. (I'm sorry to be an a**, Gar. It all just seems rather strange to me. And my "A**-ness is not being directed at you, believe me.) Edited February 7, 2015 by HornTeacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I agree about perfomance but I also do know for sure no matter what people do say that competition in inbedded in us and this activity, otherwise why the multitude discussions over and oever who makes finals who wins , whos going to top who. It's there and always has been. BITD it for sure was a competition 1st . ( IMO ) An audience member was also called a spectator to the competition ( not a participant in any form ) Now the view on this i admit can or may be very different depending on where one may have been sitting or participating in the activity. Oh, surely, competition is part of human nature, no doubt. But that's not the point. The point is who cares about the competition in DCI and who does not. There is a self-gratifying nature of placement that we all like to have - that the one we thought was the best was the winner - but that's not what drives attendance at the show. The show drives the show, not the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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