Who plays what brands?

[Kamarag]

This is a shame because I find Yamaha and Jupiter to both be garbage. I haven't played a Yamaha marching only tuba, but their 4/4 convertible in concert setup played like absolute ###. The tone was thin, and it felt like playing into a sewer pipe, no back pressure in the low end, no intonation in the high end. I was sorely disappointed by this horn.

I have also played the Jupiter marching tuba, AKA the really bad clone of Zig Kanstul's BBb 5/4 marching tuba. Aside from the fact you can push dents in and out of the brass with your bare hands and gentle pressure, the bell rim gets flat on every horn I've seen. Playing wise, it was a tremendous disappointment. There's nowhere for your air to go. The sound presence is just not there.

Comparing the Yamaha 4/4 convertible tuba to the YBB-202 marching horn is like comparing a Spark to a Camaro. They are both cars made by Chevy, but they are different in every conceivable way. The Yamaha is a pretty good horn, though the sound isn't as good as the Jupiter or System Blue. It is, however, very comfortable to move with and cart around.

The current Jupiter tuba is a *vastly* improved version of the horn that was introduced in 2008 or so. Jupiter listens to the feedback from all of it's customer corps, and implements changes quickly. The sound of these horns is outstanding, and they are much stronger and more durable now than they were a few years ago (most of the braces were completely redesigned based on feedback). Yes, it's still heavy, but it's balanced on the shoulder very well. You just have to develop stronger muscles to cart it around. Jupiter's lease program for drum corps is an excellent deal as well, far from the "ridiculous price points" you claim.

The Kanstuls are indeed excellent horns, but the company has never been willing to give discounts or lease options, and thier purchase options were out of the range of any corps or band (which is why you never saw them, despite their quality), With Spirit adopting them, I wonder if the company's stance has changed...are they offering leases, or did Spirit simply have deep-pockets benefactor?

I've taught lines playing Yamaha, Jupiter (first gen and current gen) and Dynasty (G and Bb), and I've played everything but the System Blue extensively (multiple examples of everything).

Edited June 1, 2015 by Kamarag

[Pete Freedman]

The trumpets seem to be the only ones that Yamaha provides as pro models. All the rest of their marching brass comes in one model only. There are a few grades of trumpets though, the intermediate level stuff really isn't bad.

On the Xeno front, the trombones SCV used were not Xeno-class, but the one right below it. Pretty nice horns, and much cheaper.

From what I understand (from someone on trumpetherald or trumpetmaster), the companies usually configure the intermediate as either a student model with some extras and silver plating, or as the pro horn minus those bells and whistles. And silver plated. So the trick with buying an intermediates is making sure it's a modified pro rather than a modified student horn, according to that forgotten source.

(Why silver plate/lacquer? Is it because that's what the drum corps use, and that makes it exotic? The pros generally don't use silver.)

[Kamarag]

(Why silver plate/lacquer? Is it because that's what the drum corps use, and that makes it exotic? The pros generally don't use silver.)

It's a hold-over from the old G-bugle days. Bugles in G had a "darker" overall sound that many attributed to the lacquer/plating as much as they did the key and bore of the horn (which doesn't explain the horrific chrome/nickle fad, but I digress). There's no doubt it's a great look, which is the main reason it's still the norm. Silver horns are also easier to maintain as a line, and are not going to have the color variation (over time) you'd see in brass or rose lacquer instruments.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Kamarag

[Pete Freedman]

It's a hold-over from the old G-bugle days. Bugles in G had a "darker" overall sound that many attributed to the lacquer/plating as much as they did the key and bore of the horn (which doesn't explain the horrific chrome/nickle fad, but I digress). There's no doubt it's a great look, which is the main reason it's still the norm. Silver horns are also easier to maintain as a line, and are not going to have the color variation (over time) you'd see in brass or rose lacquer instruments.

This makes a lot of sense. We (Garden State circuit corps) used a combination of Dynasty II's and DEG, with maybe a King here and there. Some were silver; most were chrome. They all looked roughly the same from a distance. But all the gold stuff has different shades of reddish vs. yellowish vs. champagne colored.

Considering 2-valve instrumentation; how many major keys could you actually play (if you needed all the notes, so to speak) and how many corresponding minors? I think some of the famed sound difference is due to the limited palette of keys. I could be wrong on this point. It's just my theory.

[Kamarag]

Considering 2-valve instrumentation; how many major keys could you actually play (if you needed all the notes, so to speak) and how many corresponding minors? I think some of the famed sound difference is due to the limited palette of keys. I could be wrong on this point. It's just my theory.

You're not wrong at all. The irony lies in that when three-valve G and then Bb/F horns became legal, most corps continued writing in the limited set of keys, just adding the odd note here or there. It was very rare that corps other than the very top really stretched the musical palate when it came to writing in the little used keys, and that hasn't changed even today.

[garner63077]

From what I understand (from someone on trumpetherald or trumpetmaster), the companies usually configure the intermediate as either a student model with some extras and silver plating, or as the pro horn minus those bells and whistles. And silver plated. So the trick with buying an intermediates is making sure it's a modified pro rather than a modified student horn, according to that forgotten source.

(Why silver plate/lacquer? Is it because that's what the drum corps use, and that makes it exotic? The pros generally don't use silver.)

Yamaha Uses the Same Valve section as the pro horn for the inter. Series trumpet, two piece bell for the Inter. instead of the One piece that the pro horn uses. The sound Difference between the Beginner to Inter. And Inter To Pro is huge and with a 2month player you can usally notice.(Not Always) I sold alot of Intermediate and pro horns in my Eight year stint.

[RContra]

Comparing the Yamaha 4/4 convertible tuba to the YBB-202 marching horn is like comparing a Spark to a Camaro. They are both cars made by Chevy, but they are different in every conceivable way. The Yamaha is a pretty good horn, though the sound isn't as good as the Jupiter or System Blue. It is, however, very comfortable to move with and cart around.

The current Jupiter tuba is a *vastly* improved version of the horn that was introduced in 2008 or so. Jupiter listens to the feedback from all of it's customer corps, and implements changes quickly. The sound of these horns is outstanding, and they are much stronger and more durable now than they were a few years ago (most of the braces were completely redesigned based on feedback). Yes, it's still heavy, but it's balanced on the shoulder very well. You just have to develop stronger muscles to cart it around.

Ditto to what you said about the difference in Yamaha models. As for the new Jupiters...

They're really sounding darker and more open with each model, but the weight of those horns is absolutely inexcusable, especially considering the size/weight and sound of the current Yamahas. The Jupiter engineers #### well know what these modern contra players do physically, and to make horns that are still that heavy is absolutely irresponsible. If you're going to make marching horns, you need to have an understanding of your effects on the students. Ask any tuba player since 08 who went from a Jupiter line to a Yamaha line how their summers were different.

[Kamarag]

Ditto to what you said about the difference in Yamaha models. As for the new Jupiters...

They're really sounding darker and more open with each model, but the weight of those horns is absolutely inexcusable, especially considering the size/weight and sound of the current Yamahas. The Jupiter engineers #### well know what these modern contra players do physically, and to make horns that are still that heavy is absolutely irresponsible. If you're going to make marching horns, you need to have an understanding of your effects on the students. Ask any tuba player since 08 who went from a Jupiter line to a Yamaha line how their summers were different.

I totally agree on the weight. We've also talked to them about where a lot of the tubing goes. And on that topic, the fact that the only contra with the *correct* way of routing the lead pipe (under the hand, not over it) is an even bigger travesty than the weight thing is. I'll take a heavy horn with an under-routed lead pipe any day. Only the System Blue horns do that.

This:

As opposed to this:

[ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar]

I totally agree on the weight. We've also talked to them about where a lot of the tubing goes. And on that topic, the fact that the only contra with the *correct* way of routing the lead pipe (under the hand, not over it) is an even bigger travesty than the weight thing is. I'll take a heavy horn with an under-routed lead pipe any day. Only the System Blue horns do that.

This:

As opposed to this:

Woah ... I didn't even realize under-routed lead pipes were a thing. I love Yamaha, but a constricted right hand shouldn't be par for the course.

[Kamarag]

Woah ... I didn't even realize under-routed lead pipes were a thing. I love Yamaha, but a constricted right hand shouldn't be par for the course.

Yea, the constricted hand is uncomfortable, and leaves you with a lead-pip MUCH more prone to bending or breaking. Jupiter has at least heavily braced the lead-pipe to keep it from bending, but it's still awkward.