BRASSO Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 All these Corps, particularly the kids themselves, give 100% commitment during the winter and the spring to get ready for competition here at the start of the summer competition season. Corps invest over a million dollars in some cases in the enterprise each and every summer. Is it too much to ask that this 100% commitment on the part of the competitors be matched with 100% commitment from the assignment of FULL judging panels for ALL shows ? Why partial panels at many of these early season shows ? The season does not run early May to end of Sept anymore. It runs 8-9 weeks tops for these Corps. How can we judge a Drum & Bugle Corps competition without Percussion judge judging Percussion as a separate standalone subcaption ? It deserves it. It would be unthinkable to judge a brass line without a brass judge. And some shows are judged without a Guard judge. Partial panels scream out mickey mouse operation, imo. Yes, thats a harsh assesssment, but I think it fits. Fans naturally don't value the scores, placements of competitions with partial panels as it naturally summons up partial validity to such scores and placements. Thats a shame, imo. The performers, staffers, fans deserve more. I understand the need to economize, but do we really need to be economizing at the heart and soul of the very process itself...... the judged competition ? What do others here think ? Is it ok to have partial panels for DCI judged competition, or should there be a way found to see that there is a `100% full panels commitment at each and every one of these short summer season competitions ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland1 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) it always makes me roll my eyes when i see a partial panel, because overall any score is rather skewed because of it. Thats not to say nothing can be gathered from caption ratings, and the corps still receive the criticism from the judges that are there. Overall its DCI's decision and I am not too up in arms over it, but I would appreciate it (as a fan) if they could have full panels at all shows. Then again i guess it is based on what the goal is. If the goal is all the stuff outside of scores (personal development, education, the journey, etc) then full panel or not does not matter. If the goal is to make finals or to win or to medal or whatever, then mid-season partial panels can hinder the development of some captions. If there is no percussion caption for a week then the corps participating don't hear percussion critiques. But I don't think this happens, usually the missing captions rotate a bit. In the end the regionals and of course finals week has full panels. (we can argue about advantages we want in regards to TOC shows as well being full panels...) overall a lack of full panels during the season, to me, will not keep a corps out of finals, or be the reason why a corps doesn't medal or win at the end of the year, or achieve whatever their placement goals may be. Really the full panels matter if we are considering each competition to be important enough. The BD undefeated streak in all competitions from 2009 to whenever that ended in 2011 was something that people talked about right? Does this accomplishment seem less noteworthy with partial panels? Its clear that no one would have beaten them even with a full panel during 09 and 10 right? I'm struggling to make a really clear point. But if a corps considers winning the show in plainwell to be their goal, then it is a shame that there is not a full panel. The fans that don't follow the season and just go to their local show and hope that x corps wins the day because they liked their show, they don't care about the size of the panel. They don't know that (for example) SCV might struggle against Crown in a panel without a percussion judge and the opposite without a brass judge. So it doesn't even matter to them, they hope their favorite wins based on the judges who are there. And the fans like us that sit here and analyze the scores nightly and bicker, it can add fuel to fires when we say that x corps was only so close to y corps because the color guard judge wasn't there. But then a day later we forget about that. There was a point in there somewhere... TLDR: It would be nice to have a full panel for each show, but in the end it doesn't make that much of a difference. Edited June 20, 2015 by Cleveland1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Maybe what the Corps should do when they arrive at a Show and find incomplete judging panels, they should just consider putting the Brass and the Guard out into competition at that show. This way the Corps could have the Percussion practice outside the stadium and get ready for the shows with complete panels and where the commitment between DCI and its judging panels for the Corps is total and is real. Or.. if its the Guards, where they'll be an empty seat where Guard Judge should be, just send out the Brass and the Percussion, and let the Guards practice their tosses, and spins, dance moves, etc until such time where DCI doesn't go on the cheap . Incomplete shows on behalf of Corps for the fans would a bummer. but to the Corps credit most seem prepared with full shows now in June. Corps showing up to give 100% but finding incomplete judging panels for the judged show of theirs under these circumstances then is shameful, imo. Why the Corps put up with such half panels like this every year is puzzling to say the least. Edited June 21, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Really the full panels matter if we are considering each competition to be important enough The fans that don't follow the season and just go to their local show and hope that x corps wins the day because they liked their show, they don't care about the size of the panel. On the first point, if the competition is not important, then don't keep score at all. On the second point, I do agree with you that a sizable number of people at shows, really don't care about the scores and the placements. This trend, in my observations, has accelerated over the years too. I see far more fans exiting the stadium after the performances, and before the scores are announced than at any time in the last 50 years. Yes, some of this is because at the local shows, the placements are pretty much easily predictable, even before a note is played that nite in competition. But some of it is the fact many no longer care about the scores and the placements any more as it relates to DCI competition. Sure, the homers, and the alums care, but the unafiiliated increasingly don't care about the scores and the placements.. especially in the early season. So upon reflection, the half panels are symbolic perhaps of the half interest assigned by both Corps and fans alike to these early season shows, and so DCI has noticed this too, and has now decided to cut corners here, and thus save themselves a buck. While I think its regrettable to the performers giving their 100%, maybe its just a sign of the times too. Who knows. But its something that many have seemingly settled into now as the norm... but its a peculiar norm that has been accepted as the norm these last several seasons now, imo. Edited June 21, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland1 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Its important for the judges to judge though, so i can see why the first month isn't all exhibition. Though medford is exhibition only and still draws a nice crowd from my understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) All these Corps, particularly the kids themselves, give 100% commitment during the winter and the spring to get ready for competition here at the start of the summer competition season. Corps invest over a million dollars in some cases in the enterprise each and every summer. Is it too much to ask that this 100% commitment on the part of the competitors be matched with 100% commitment from the assignment of FULL judging panels for ALL shows ? Why partial panels at many of these early season shows ? The season does not run early May to end of Sept anymore. It runs 8-9 weeks tops for these Corps. How can we judge a Drum & Bugle Corps competition without Percussion judge judging Percussion as a separate standalone subcaption ? It deserves it. It would be unthinkable to judge a brass line without a brass judge. And some shows are judged without a Guard judge. Partial panels scream out mickey mouse operation, imo. Yes, thats a harsh assesssment, but I think it fits. Fans naturally don't value the scores, placements of competitions with partial panels as it naturally summons up partial validity to such scores and placements. Thats a shame, imo. The performers, staffers, fans deserve more. I understand the need to economize, but do we really need to be economizing at the heart and soul of the very process itself...... the judged competition ? What do others here think ? Is it ok to have partial panels for DCI judged competition, or should there be a way found to see that there is a `100% full panels commitment at each and every one of these short summer season competitions ? I agree. It would be much akin to the NFL conducting preseason games with only 3 officials, the NBA using only 1 in their preseason games, or MLB employing only 2 umpires per game for games in the months of April and May. I can understand DCI's need for economizing. But if you're going to conduct an activity, you've chosen to also conduct it in a proper manner. If DCI feels that a partial panel is fair, valid, and equitable to be employed for these shows...then why isn't it carried through all the way to finals? I think there's a tacit admission of something in there... Edited June 21, 2015 by HornTeacher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) I agree. It would be much akin to the NFL conducting preseason games with only 3 officials, the NBA using only 1 in their preseason games, or MLB employing only 2 umpires per game for games in the months of April and May. I can understand DCI's need for economizing. But if you're going to conduct and activity, you've chosen to also conduct it in a proper manner. If DCI feels that a partial panel is fair, valid, and equitable to be employed for these shows...then why isn't it carried through all the way to finals? I think there's a tacit admission of something in there... Yes, HornTeacher. Even in MLB Spring Training, where the games don't count and they are only exhibitions, it would be unthinkable to have partial umpiring crews... where theres no home plate umpire. Instead the infield ump calls the balls and strikes from behind the pitchers mound. Having no Percussion judge, or no Guard Judge, and half panels, is pretty much telliing everyone.. including the Corps themselves.. that these early season shows are merely exhibitions, not real competitions. But thats a fallacy. The competitions and scores ARE real. Opinions, including judges not at show competitions opinions, ARE being formulated and branded. Seeding IS being done at the regionals at mid season off these early season scores and placements. So these early season scores and placements DO have meaning in respect to the overall season, even if DCI gives it half an effort in seeing to it that THEY are prepared to adequately judge these Corps in competition. Plus, as I said above here, the performers 100% effort in these June shows should be matched by a 100% effort on the part of DCI in seeing to it that they have 100% fully staffed judges at ALL these shows.. not a 40-50% effort in being ready in June, regarding their judging assignments. Finally, This would have been unthinkable as well for BITD Corps to undergo early season competition. without a designated, standalone, Percussion Judge, or Color Guard Judge. The fact that apparently we have allowed it to become the DCI standard operating procedure( the norm ) these last several years now does not make it right, imo. These performers out on the field in these early season show competitions deserve better, imo. Edited June 21, 2015 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Not only that, but since the score is somewhat subjective an early season outlier score could hurt ( or help) a corps for several weeks. Think of a corps that has a strong percussion section not getting a percussion score for the first few shows. Does this box them into a lower score when they get a full panel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Really the full panels matter if we are considering each competition to be important enough. The BD undefeated streak in all competitions from 2009 to whenever that ended in 2011 was something that people talked about right? Does this accomplishment seem less noteworthy with partial panels? To some degree, the obvious answer seems to be " yes ". For example, if we compare this streak that included some partial panels, to that of ( for example ) winning streaks of other Corps under full panels, then naturally thinking people would have to give the edge to the winning streaks done under full panels over those that were accomplished thru a mix of full panels and half panels in a comparison of noteworthy streaks. So this is yet another example on why having partial panels is not appropriate and does present comparison problems across the board, imo. Edited June 21, 2015 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liahona Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 All these Corps, particularly the kids themselves, give 100% commitment during the winter and the spring to get ready for competition here at the start of the summer competition season. Corps invest over a million dollars in some cases in the enterprise each and every summer. Is it too much to ask that this 100% commitment on the part of the competitors be matched with 100% commitment from the assignment of FULL judging panels for ALL shows ? Why partial panels at many of these early season shows ? The season does not run early May to end of Sept anymore. It runs 8-9 weeks tops for these Corps. How can we judge a Drum & Bugle Corps competition without Percussion judge judging Percussion as a separate standalone subcaption ? It deserves it. It would be unthinkable to judge a brass line without a brass judge. And some shows are judged without a Guard judge. Partial panels scream out mickey mouse operation, imo. Yes, thats a harsh assesssment, but I think it fits. Fans naturally don't value the scores, placements of competitions with partial panels as it naturally summons up partial validity to such scores and placements. Thats a shame, imo. The performers, staffers, fans deserve more. I understand the need to economize, but do we really need to be economizing at the heart and soul of the very process itself...... the judged competition ? What do others here think ? Is it ok to have partial panels for DCI judged competition, or should there be a way found to see that there is a `100% full panels commitment at each and every one of these short summer season competitions ? Are we not thinking selfishly here? I thought the rationale behind the partial panels had to do with reducing the cost of moving the judges around. In other words, reduce some of the overhead, so that more money could go back to the corps that they are trying to help in the first place. The scores are a bit volatile this part of the season as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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