N.E. Brigand Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 I observe a lot of the high school and college bands increasingly giving up their long-standing, traditional marching band styles and becoming more modern, as these modern marching bands in DCI have become. There are exceptions to this, however. Quite a few of the largest, most prolific college marching bands have resisted this encroachment on their styles, and they remain, stylistically, musically, and uniform-wise, pretty much the same way they have been for the last half century or more. Ohio State's Marching Band, Texas Long Horn, Notre Dame, USC, Texas A&M, and several others have not changed one iota, as near as I can tell. And they remain the most popular college marching bands with the public, despite virtually no change stylistically the last 50 years. They are "bando", and regular folks seem to like these traditional based "bando" styles from my observations. That said, DCI has no doubt had an effect on the second tier of the college marching band world the last 20-30 years, and its influence is quite noticeable during football season in particular (for those who don't follow BOA competitions). Finally, as an astute DCPer noted above, DCI seems more heavily impacted by WGI in show designs the last two decades or so, rather than its marching band brethren in the BOA realm. This would be my assessment of the cross-influencing going on, and where we still see clear resistance to it, in some quarters. As usual, your comment could lead us in a lot of interesting directions. I'm happy to see all of them followed; I like free-ranging discussions. Let me start with this question: on one of the early DCI "Legacy" season videos, somewhere in the mid-1970s, one of the announcers asks an expert: what differentiates these "drum and bugle corps" from the marching bands with which viewers may be more familiar? The expert says: these corps typically march on fields without yard lines. Does that seem like a fair assessment of the key division between corps and bands in the 1970s? Is the major influence of BOA on DCI that the latter now march on lined fields? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapper7 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 "Bando A term I use for people who look like a train-wreck when they march, or for anyone who doesn't have their shako low enough." synonym: A TICK. nice post - informative + lulz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Shows that are essentially weak or severely stunted in terms of basic execution. I call 'em "clown shoes". Definitely saw some clown shoes this year from a few corps, but I can't put them on blast here because it's in poor taste. Calling a DC a MB is an insult unless it's coming from a casual fan who isn't aware of the difference--seems like normally about a tenth of the audience has never been to a show. I live in So Cal and stopped trying to explain drum corps years ago: if someone wants to know or is a woman I'm dating that I'd like to introduce to the activity, I'll take her to a show where BD and SCV will both play--then it's self-explanatory. Just point and say "That's Drum Corps". So for you it's all about achievement and not design--am I reading you correctly? Pioneer is marching band but Cadets are drum corps? In that case, what about a corps who scores a 61.700 on June 18 (that's about what Pioneer is scoring now) but an 84.775 on Aug. 8? That's a real example from last year, of course. Were they a marching band in June but a drum corps in August? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapper7 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 As usual, your comment could lead us in a lot of interesting directions. I'm happy to see all of them followed; I like free-ranging discussions. Let me start with this question: on one of the early DCI "Legacy" season videos, somewhere in the mid-1970s, one of the announcers asks an expert: what differentiates these "drum and bugle corps" from the marching bands with which viewers may be more familiar? The expert says: these corps typically march on fields without yard lines. Does that seem like a fair assessment of the key division between corps and bands in the 1970s? Is the major influence of BOA on DCI that the latter now march on lined fields? No the key division is that drum corps in the 70s were extremely intense, entertaining, loud and shows were akin to rock concerts. Bands have always been a casual school activity with little rehearsal time, half the members just there for easy A and oh yeah 98 % of the time they are god-awful to listen to. Most practice fields, and all show fields, even in the 70s were painted or had lines worn into them. frequently fields aren't painted, there is fast technique going back to the 50s at least whereby two guys armed with a spray can, a yard stick and some twine can paint a field with all yard lines, hashes, a center X and more in about a half hour so whoever said that was clueless and just made up an answer. so- not a key difference therefore BOA's "major influence" would be a non sequitir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapper7 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) So for you it's all about achievement and not design--am I reading you correctly? Pioneer is marching band but Cadets are drum corps? In that case, what about a corps who scores a 61.700 on June 18 (that's about what Pioneer is scoring now) but an 84.775 on Aug. 8? That's a real example from last year, of course. Were they a marching band in June but a drum corps in August? The last time I saw Pioneer live, they had a massive hornline and were bad-###, so no. Pioneer is Drum Corps and opening with 61 is pretty good. Cracking 80 is huge accomplishment. and yes obviously Garfield is a Drum Corps they have been since like, the depression or something...."Achivement & Design" over-complicates the question. I don't factor in scores that much...I watched a Div I corps run marching basics in full uniform at a show, they broke 80 like last week, when I saw them 2 weeks ago.....so marching band 101, like 1st day of band-camp 8s & 8s, several were out of step and several halted on the wrong foot and missed the most simplistic horn viz - which is to come up to level on the move and back dn to attn. on the mark time. THAT is "clown shoes" my friend. Also why I shy away from the numbers, how this corps could possibly break 80 makes no sense. If Pioneer is breaking 80 then they are finally getting the love they deserve I always liked them. Edited July 23, 2015 by Tapper7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) As usual, your comment could lead us in a lot of interesting directions. I'm happy to see all of them followed; I like free-ranging discussions. Let me start with this question: on one of the early DCI "Legacy" season videos, somewhere in the mid-1970s, one of the announcers asks an expert: what differentiates these "drum and bugle corps" from the marching bands with which viewers may be more familiar? The expert says: these corps typically march on fields without yard lines. Does that seem like a fair assessment of the key division between corps and bands in the 1970s? Is the major influence of BOA on DCI that the latter now march on lined fields? I have no idea what qualifications makes one an " expert " in the differentiation of the major diffences between 1970's DCI and the High School, College Marching Band World. I would tend to differ with the respondant's answer to the questioner's question that a major difference was " the yard lines ". That difference would fall into a minor, almost inconsequential, "difference ". So, no, I do not think that is a " fair assessment " of the major difference between DCI Corps on football fields in the mid 70's and what most 1970's High School and Colleges were doing in the similar time frame on football fields with their Marching groups. Now, having said this, did most in the public see no difference ? Probably. But that would depend on where one lived however too, imo.. Most ( but not all ) in my immediate 5-10 mile radius knew the difference between a Drum & Bugle Corps and a Marching Band. Go back to that old neighborhood today however, and 95% the new inhabitants in that 5-10 mile radius probably do not know what a Drum & Bugle Corps is, as there are no such units within 30 miles of them. For them, its just like the rest of the Country, ie... a DCI competitive Marching Band is simply a Summer's Marching Band that still limits some instrumentation ( in summer field competition only) that groups like BOA allow throughout the year. For the vast public then, the difference is no longer even the yard lines anymore. Edited July 23, 2015 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) I have said this before.. and it probably bares repeating when this subject resurfaces on here from time to time.... there is increasing consensus among the older followers and former participants of this activity, and current, newer participants that these DCI units are " Marching Bands ". This is a subject area where there is very noticeable and increasing agreement and the reaching of common ground... however reluctantly that nomenclature has finally arrived and received acknowledgment. There is only some residual resistance remaining among a minority segment of those that now participate, or decades ago, participated in this activity. Edited July 23, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapper7 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Which takes us back to 1971, right? "The year drum corps died" because, if I've heard the history aright, two major corps had shows with characters and the suggestions of a story? But for that matter, weren't Bridgemen a pioneering corps in the presentation of a visual theme? Were they therefore "bando"? And beyond that, what about Phantom's all-classical shows starting in the 1970s? Was the first version of "Spartacus" a WGI show before WGI meant anything to most people in DCI? Bridgemen, being one of the most beloved and entertaining drum corps of all time? No. I could never put them and the word "band" or bando or boa together. Don't think Rockford's love of classical implicates them anything band-related either, they just developed a tradition for it. They have a sweet DeBussy medley in their 2nd production this yr. If we equate innovation with band then they're ALL Bands, The definition of "vanguard" is "on the front lines" "the cutting edge" "first in" etc....it makes me nautious to even think of Santa Clara as a band. The whole reason Gail chose the name was express that "this corps intends to be on the forefront of innovation and design every year....literally ...at the vanguard of the drum corps activity." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cube Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) BoA shows are over-designed. Last year, several bands went into finals with shows that I thought hammered the theme into the audience. Edited July 23, 2015 by cube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapper7 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) I have no idea what qualifications makes one an " expert " in the differentiation of the major diffences between 1970's DCI and the High School, College Marching Band World. I would tend to differ with the respondant's answer to the questioner's question that a major difference was " the yard lines ". That difference would fall into a minor, almost inconsequential, "difference ". So, no, I do not think that is a " fair assessment " of the major difference between DCI Corps on football fields in the mid 70's and what most 1970's High School and Colleges were doing in the similar time frame on football fields with their Marching groups. Now, having said this, did most in the public see no difference ? Probably. But that would depend on where one lived however too, imo.. Most ( but not all ) in my immediate 5-10 mile radius knew the difference between a Drum & Bugle Corps and a Marching Band. Go back to that old neighborhood today however, and 95% the new inhabitants in that 5-10 mile radius probably do not know what a Drum & Bugle Corps is, as there are no such units within 30 miles of them. For them, its just like the rest of the Country, ie... a DCI competitive Marching Band is simply a Summer's Marching Band that still limits some instrumentation ( in summer field competition only) that groups like BOA allow throughout the year. For the vast public then, the difference is no longer even the yard lines anymore. Spot ON! There are parts of the midwest, northest and the south who live and die by their local drum corps. In many midwest towns the drum corps show is the biggest event of the entire year and everyone in town shows up. There are universities in the south where 20,000 people will oveflow the stadium and give the show an amazing rock n roll atmosphere, there are shows in the the northeast where the Local Elks Lodge will hold a ceremony in our honor, cook enough food to feed us for a week and make large donations, then they give speeches about drum corps where many of them break down and cry ...it's really touching. Then there are places like Southern California where I live ....if I asked 100 people at random "what is drum corps" I'd be surprised if 5 of them were even in the ballpark. We have no football team and no drum corps...it sucks! Edited July 23, 2015 by Tapper7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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