DCI World Championships Finals - Paid Attendance Figures

[BRASSO]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

So you are positive that these are the actual numbers of paid receipts which were actually provided to the IRS, and that in fact the numbers in the stands at Buffalo for Sat Finals actually dropped over 15,000 in that time period? Or is it more likely that the 1990 calculation included tickets other than paid receipts, like comped seats, or maybe it was a combined Fri/Sat receipts, or the calculations are different in some other wsy?

 Its not as complicated as you might think it is. I believe that the official DCI Finals night paid attendance figures that DCI releases to the public each and every season are the same figures they utilize in their filings with the IRS each and every season. I don't see why not... unless someone thinks DCI was cooking the paid attendance numbers numbers in any season. If they think that, then my response would be that I don't particularly share in that jaded and cynical view of DCI.

Edited August 31, 2017 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

17 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

There are many millenials who are already a part of the job market who still support public services like PBS. 

I also find it odd that you phrase it as "money confiscation." Theyre taxes to support the well being of everyone. Whether the funds are used efficiently or not is another matter entirely. I'm gonna stop there before Brasso goes on another tirade. 

 Tirade ? lol...  engage in hyperbole much ? ,lol

[Tim K]

2 hours ago, mingusmonk said:

I think you might be surprised how little regard millennials, especially the younger set, have for Television.  They might find it cool to be able to say they were on TV. But the amount of them that get their screen-based entertainment from other sources is significant. You might use a phrase like "National Broadcast" and they would probably think that it means, or at least should include, internet. And that number is only shifting further in that direction. Elementary and Junior High kids today struggle to tell you any channel lineups. What station is what number on the dial, or even what shows are on what station at what scheduled time. There will likely always be a little place, a niche, for broadcast television. But basically, if you haven't been waving goodbye, might as well go ahead and start now. 

 

 

A freely accessible broadcast, especially internet based, would be awesome. 

Much of what you say is correct, young people do get their information in a variety of ways, but what will appeal is very unpredictable and being on network TV still bears weight. I often ask middle and high school students (in a school setting) what they watch on TV. Ten years ago none of them would have said they watched "Masterpiece Theater" unless it was a school requirement, but when "Downton Abbey" aired a few years back, lots of kids knew who the Crawley's were. They pick and choose all sorts of things and watch at their convenience so DCI returning to PBS could get audience.

[Stu]

32 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

There are many millenials who are already a part of the job market who still support public services like PBS. 

I also find it odd that you phrase it as "money confiscation." Theyre taxes to support the well being of everyone. Whether the funds are used efficiently or not is another matter entirely. I'm gonna stop there before Brasso goes on another tirade. 

I am all for private donations and foundations supporting any endeavor like PBS or NPR.  But when DCI was broadcast on PBS the collection rate from pledges made during the broadcasts were well below other PBS campaigns; that was a big reason it was dropped.  Most people thought that they should get it ‘for free’, just like you just posted, with the hard earned money of tax payers paying for it. And I do know that because I helped during those campaigns.

Also, taxes certainly are a form of compulsion; they are a confiscation of personal wealth by a governmental entity to financially support the infrastructure and requirements of running that governmental entity (like the three branches, the military, etc…).  And PBS does not, has not, and will never fall into any of those categories.  Not only has gross overspending by the US Congress got us into trillions of dollars in debt, but it is also the members of congress continuously voting in expenditures for things that the government should not be involved with outside of the 'vital' infrastructure and requirements to run the government.  One may argue that DCI is educational for the youth involved, but the DCI broadcast of performances is entertainment not education; and thus there is no way the broadcast can be considered as something which is 'vital' to the public requiring my, our, hard earned (yes confiscated) money.

[Stu]

26 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 Its not as complicated as you might think it is. I believe that the official DCI Finals night paid attendance figures that DCI releases to the public each and every season are the same figures they utilize in their filings with the IRS each and every season. I don't see why not... unless someone thinks DCI was cooking the paid attendance numbers numbers in any season. If they think that, then my response would be that I don't particularly share in that jaded and cynical view of DCI.

I hate to be redundant, but want this to be absolutely clear. I think there is likely a different calculation for those three Buffalo years (maybe comp tickets being thrown in or Fri/Sat conflation in 1990, as opposed to just strict Sat only paid receipts count in 1995 and 2001). You, on the other hand, are saying that Buffalo did indeed have a Sat only paid receipt count drop of over a 15,000 butts in the seats from 1990 to 2001.  Ok then.

[BRASSO]

30 minutes ago, Stu said:

I am all for private donations and foundations supporting any endeavor like PBS or NPR.  But when DCI was broadcast on PBS the collection rate from pledges made during the broadcasts were well below other PBS campaigns; that was a big reason it was dropped.  Most people thought that they should get it ‘for free’, just like you just posted, with the hard earned money of tax payers paying for it. And I do know that because I helped during those campaigns.

 

 

 This assessment is not quite accurate. For about 6-7 years of the DCI 's PBS Finals broadcast, the PBS pledges DID in fact come in as initially promised by pledges. Sufficient enough for PBS to continue the telecasts. However, after these first 6-7 seaaons, for whatever reason, the pledges came in at healthy numbers but there began to be noticeable reneging on the broadcast pledges during the broadcast, by people who pledged but increasingly did not follow thru as they had in all the previous years . We know PBS had good levels of pledges that were fulfilled in the first 6-7 years, as there is no way that PBS would have continued the PBS Broadcasts after the first go around of pledges, but no receipt of the monies from the pledgers. PBS would have pulled the plug after year 1, year 2, year 3,. But they did not. For a simple reason. The pledges DID come in, in healthy levels.. sufficient enough for PBS to believe the Broadcast was a success for them... which it was. But times DO change, and after about the 7th year, PBS began to see a real drop off in both the numbers of pledges and the the reneging on the pledges that were received. It finally got to a point that PBS severed the relationship with DCI... one that HAD been a successful relationship with PBS and DCI for about a decade.

Edited August 31, 2017 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

14 minutes ago, Stu said:

I hate to be redundant, but want this to be absolutely clear. I think there is likely a different calculation for those three Buffalo years (maybe comp tickets being thrown in or Fri/Sat conflation in 1990, as opposed to just strict Sat only paid receipts count in 1995 and 2001). You, on the other hand, are saying that Buffalo did indeed have a Sat only paid receipt count drop of over a 15,000 butts in the seats from 1990 to 2001.  Ok then.

 Yes. I accept that DCI did not alter their announced Finals Night Attendance in ANY season, nor change the method by which they counted their paid Finals Night attendance in ANY season, nor the paid attendance figures they announced to the public, in any season either.  So yes. I trust that DCI 's announced Finals Night Paid attendance figures are what they tell us they are. Maybe I shouldn't trust DCI in this, who knows. But yes, I do.

Edited August 31, 2017 by BRASSO

[Tim K]

When PBS first began airing DCI, WGBH Channel 2 did have phones open for donations, but in 1975 when finals were first aired, the kinds of specials we associate with PBS fundraisers: Yanni, Botti, Josh Groban, Libera, Andre Riu, etc., were not used. This development came in the late 80's and early 90's. Prior to that time, pledge drives interrupted regular television. When finals was no longer aired live, I seem to remember it being aired around Thanksgiving. That's not a major pledge time. Usually that happens in December when Christmas and holiday shows are aired for PBS. Those who have said people at PBS said DCI fans did not pay their pledges may be correct, and I have no reason to doubt what they say, if it did not air in March during membership month, August when they close the booksehicg it had not in a while, or December when the most popular shows are aired, it was probably not a major fundraising tool. Interestingly, WGBH used to air "Blast" in March and around New Year's Eve, so that must have been a money maker.

[Stu]

14 minutes ago, BRASSO said:

 This assessment is not quite accurate.

... after about the 7th year, PBS began to see a real drop off in the reneging on the pledges received. It finally got to a point that PBS severed the relationship with DCI... one that HAD been a successful relationship with PBS and DCI for about a decade.

I worked on the DCI PBS campaigns in those last years, and saw first hand the large number of pledges going unfulfilled; as in promises to pay that were not kept. So, what I posted 'was' quite completely accurate.

[BRASSO]

 By the way, if there is one station that young do not watch with much frequency these days anymore, its PBS. Remember when PBS had all the programs for little kids on ? Gone, mostly now. One look at the PBS programming and it tells us all pretty convncingly what PBS sees as its primary demographic these days now... its old people mostly now... REALLY old people... lol!. PBS can't survive on Fed Gov't welfare forever, especially now that the millenials have tuned out PBS even more than most other networks. Once, the old are pushing up daisies, PBS will be a goner, imo. No way the young are going to taxpayor fund a TV station that has so little to offer them in programming anymore. Thats why DCI getting back on PBS might be a good thing, but its no long term solution, imo. DCI will probably be around longer than PBS will in the next decade, imo.

Edited August 31, 2017 by BRASSO