Brass Ensemble Amplification

[wilme861]

6 minutes ago, valjean said:

🙄 not really my point  

I know your point, stop using mics but that would stifle creativity…

[valjean]

1 minute ago, wilme861 said:

I know your point, stop using mics but that would stifle creativity…

Well, more specifically, the era before mics necessitated a particular creativity. 

I love plenty of shows that use mic'd soloists, ensembles etc to great effect. But like all things drum corps the addition of these effects dilutes the potency of yadda yadda yadda old fart things blah blah. You get the idea.

[Sh0uldN0t]

Expecting drum corps to stop using mics is like expecting members and staff not to use mobile phones on tour. 

The better discussion is about how mics/electronics are judged. I bet few would try to argue that judges today are fair or even consistent in how they evaluate the use and impact of electronics on performance. To me, that's where the emphasis should be. How should judges penalize performances where the electronics impair the program? Should judges give equal treatment when electronics create disproportionate demand on different ensembles? There are plenty more questions.

The worst example I know was SCV 2017 where a handful of individually amplified brass carried the high demand or exposure while the rest of the brass ensemble were mere backup players. That corps at the DCI championship was third in brass, second in music analysis, second in GE and second overall. The results were what they were. The playing field didn't seem even in my view.

Electronics will only get more sophisticated. What needs to be more sophisticated as well is how we credit or discredit their use. 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Sh0uldN0t

[DAvery]

4 hours ago, wilme861 said:

You aren’t forced to mic though. Designers now have that option which wasn’t one prior to amplification. Creativity isn’t stifled by providing another option in your playbook even if most corps don’t mic anymore.

You may not be forced to mic the entire field or just the best players, but if others do and that is being rewarded - then you are kind of forced into it to remain competitive. And for the record, I do not have an issue with soloist or small ensemble amplification. What I do have an issue with is the deceitfulness of mic-ing the entire or select members of the brass ensemble.  No longer does the best brass ensemble win the Ott. The best brass ensemble with money to buy mics for the strongest players and a soundboard specialist to mix the sound to give the impression the brass sound is acoustic is who wins the Ott. It's a slippery slope when we don't reward the best players with the highest score.  

[wilme861]

8 minutes ago, DAvery said:

You may not be forced to mic the entire field or just the best players, but if others do and that is being rewarded - then you are kind of forced into it to remain competitive. And for the record, I do not have an issue with soloist or small ensemble amplification. What I do have an issue with is the deceitfulness of mic-ing the entire or select members of the brass ensemble.  No longer does the best brass ensemble win the Ott. The best brass ensemble with money to buy mics for the strongest players and a soundboard specialist to mix the sound to give the impression the brass sound is acoustic is who wins the Ott. It's a slippery slope when we don't reward the best players with the highest score.  

The Brass judge is in front of the speakers though and doesn’t deal with the amplification. They literally judge what’s being played in front of them. Like the percussion judge, they’ll miss certain things because they’re on the wrong side of the field. Music Analysis and the GE judges will capture that amplification.

[DAvery]

33 minutes ago, wilme861 said:

The Brass judge is in front of the speakers though and doesn’t deal with the amplification. They literally judge what’s being played in front of them. Like the percussion judge, they’ll miss certain things because they’re on the wrong side of the field. Music Analysis and the GE judges will capture that amplification.

I would think (hope?) the brass judges would score a brass ensemble that relies on ensemble amplification (or select players) a lower achievement score. 

[wilme861]

1 minute ago, DAvery said:

I would think (hope?) the brass judges would score a brass ensemble that relies on ensemble amplification (or select players) a lower achievement score. 

Again, the brass judge is on the sideline in front of the speakers so how would they know? There’s no hiding out on the field. If the judge is in front of you, they’ll hear the strong players and the weaker ones just the same.

[DAvery]

5 hours ago, wilme861 said:

Again, the brass judge is on the sideline in front of the speakers so how would they know? There’s no hiding out on the field. If the judge is in front of you, they’ll hear the strong players and the weaker ones just the same.

So what you are saying is a judge standing in front of a speaker cannot tell if the 20 strongest players in the brass ensemble are mic-ed? 

[wilme861]

3 hours ago, DAvery said:

So what you are saying is a judge standing in front of a speaker cannot tell if the 20 strongest players in the brass ensemble are mic-ed? 

In front of from the audience perspective, the speaker is behind the judge.

[jwillis35]

3 hours ago, DAvery said:

So what you are saying is a judge standing in front of a speaker cannot tell if the 20 strongest players in the brass ensemble are mic-ed? 

What people are saying is 1) the judge doesn't care that they are mic'd, 2) His job is to judge what he hears in front of him - from every single player, 3) Someone else from a higher perspective will judge overall balances with mics, pit, brass, perc, sound effects and on. 

Your argument seems to be "screw it, just play loud and louder and then you will not need mics." This is not always the best approach either. 

Look I definitely get where you are coming from. You don't have to like it. A lot of people do not like the mics and amps, or singing and narration, and other sound effects. It is a different activity for sure.