resipsaloquitur Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Reading through this thread reminded me of this quote from my favorite band director, Brooke Basso 💌 Quote "I can't think of many (if any) other activities where after competing against each other, they celebrate WITH each other like this!!" Band is one of the most competitive yet supportive communities around in terms of healthy competition. There is no bench. There are no starters. There are no losses. There is no defense! You can’t control how good the other band is. You can’t play defense against them to try to beat them. You can only control how good YOU are, and applaud those that showed up, performed their best and created a fantastic show! At the end of the contest, regardless who won…we ALL celebrate the activity and how 1000’s of kids chose to spend their weekend. Video was posted by Brooke at last year's BOA retreat. Watch it, it's short. It's a good reminder for myself why we are in this activity. What what it's all about. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWW11 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 19 minutes ago, ContraFart said: But the structural advantages remove so much of that pressure. I admit years of smart organization and staff cultivation have constructed some of these advantages, but the advantage that is biggest is that BD will always be a majority of performers first choice. You absolutely minimize the pressure they face. They are an internationally recognized group of young people who are EXPECTED to be near perfect. Regardless of how well taught, regardless of the advantages you feel they may otherwise have, i don’t know many 18-21 year olds that could handle that pressure 20-30 times over a couple of months. If they have an off night, not only do they let themselves down, but they let down their alumni as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, DWW11 said: You absolutely minimize the pressure they face. They are an internationally recognized group of young people who are EXPECTED to be near perfect. Regardless of how well taught, regardless of the advantages you feel they may otherwise have, i don’t know many 18-21 year olds that could handle that pressure 20-30 times over a couple of months. If they have an off night, not only do they let themselves down, but they let down their alumni as well. Which corps does that NOT apply to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jwillis35 Posted July 31, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ContraFart said: This plays into what I said about the activity not existing for the fan. It simply doesn't. It really only exists for the marching members. However if winning was not on the mind of some of the top tier performers, then why do so many go from a top 5 corps to BD than the other way around? Well, to be honest the activity does exist for those who perform. It is a student-driven arts activity. This is not to say we the fans get no enjoyment from it. But absolutely it is about the kids. I think the biggest lie we tell ourselves -- which also ends up being very disrespectful to the members of the Blue Devils -- is that 1) they are only here to win, 2) they have advantages so that is the only reason they are good, 3) they didn't build that show, design staff did, 4) BD has more full-time teachers and designers so those kids are lucky, 5) they design to the sheets and that's the only reason they win. And there are more I am sure. You can think what you want. You can not like the show. The marching members of Blue Devils are fine with that. You can not like that they win a lot. I think BD members are fine with that too. They understand those things. BUT...regardless of what you think of the show or all the winning we tend to diminish the real hard work, skill, musicianship and the love for performing that the members of the Blue Devils exhibit. I can't think of a worse thing we can do than to diminish just how hard their membership works and how much they love to perform just so we can find an excuse for why they win and then downgrade their accomplishments. That is what really bothers me about a thread like this. Those marching members of the Blue Devils are real humans who have high expectations thrown at them, who have to work hard and perform like all the other kids, who are busting their rear-ends to perfect a show, who love to perform, and they love the activity. Yet we just offer up excuse after excuse for their success in a disgusting, demeaning "you didn't build that" manner. When I see a corps come out and just throw down and perform like they did in Atlanta I am all smiles. Even if I was OK with the show I would be standing and screaming just because I got to see these performers come together and ABSOLUTELY NAIL a truly challenging show with such passion, attention to detail, amazing musicianship, athleticism and love for performing. Bravo to the Members of the Blue Devils Drum & Bugle Corps. Some of us love it when you perform like that. My hair was on FIRE from that Atlanta performance. Edited July 31, 2023 by jwillis35 3 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWW11 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 11 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Which corps does that NOT apply to? Oh, come on! That is not a serious question, right? Kids in the other corps are all under some pressure to achieve, but in only rare cases are they EXPECTED to win, usually because BD stands in their way. If they win, that’s a bonus. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, jwillis35 said: Well, to be honest the activity does exist for those who perform. It is a student-driven arts activity. This is not to say we the fans get no enjoyment from it. But absolutely it is about the kids. I think the biggest lie we tell ourselves -- which also ends up being very disrespectful to the members of the Blue Devils -- is that 1) they are only here to win, 2) they have advantages so that is the only reason they are good, 3) they didn't build that show, design staff did, 4) BD has more full-time teachers and designers so those kids are lucky, 5) they design to the sheets and that's the only reason they win. And there are more I am sure. You can think what you want. You can not like the show. The marching members of Blue Devils are fine with that. You can not like that they win a lot. I think BD members are fine with that too. They understand those things. BUT...regardless of what you think of the show or all the winning we tend to diminish the real hard work, skill, musicianship and the love for performing that the members of the Blue Devils exhibit. I can't think of a worse thing we can do than to diminish just how hard their membership works and how much they love to perform just so we can find an excuse for why they win and then downgrade their accomplishments. That is what really bothers me about a thread like this. Those marching members of the Blue Devils are real humans who have high expectations thrown at them, who have to work hard and perform like all the other kids, who are busting their rear-ends to perfect a show, who love to perform, and they love the activity. Yet we just offer up excuse after excuse for their success in a disgusting, demeaning "you didn't build that" manner. When I see a corps come out and just throw down and perform like they did in Atlanta I am all smiles. Even if I was OK with the show I would be standing and screaming just because I got to see these performers come together and ABSOLUTELY NAIL a truly challenging show with such passion, attention to detail, amazing musicianship, athleticism and love for performing. Bravo to the Members of the Blue Devils Drum & Bugle Corps. Some of us love it when you perform like that. My hair was on FIRE from that Atlanta performance. I understand why posts like yours exist, but they treat BD as a monolith. What about the rest of the top tier corps? Are they not real human beings who bust their butts? Do they lack passion or musicianship? Do they not have top notch teachers? The difference is, their goal to win becomes a fruitless endeavor, their own Sisyphean task, a "white whale" so to speak. You make think posts like these diminish the work of the kids in BD, however I think the sheer dominance of BD diminishes the work of the rest of the top tier corps. Edited August 1, 2023 by ContraFart 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, DWW11 said: Oh, come on! That is not a serious question, right? Kids in the other corps are all under some pressure to achieve, but in only rare cases are they EXPECTED to win, usually because BD stands in their way. If they win, that’s a bonus. So BDs alumni will reject them if they lose? For a corps that has only lost DCI 6 times in 20 years, and has not finished lower than 2nd in that time, a 3rd place finish wouldn't be the end of the world. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, ContraFart said: You make think posts like these diminish the work of the kids in BD, however I think the sheer dominance of BD diminishes the work of the rest of the top tier corps. I am trying to play nice with you but I cannot even comprehend what you are saying here. I think you can apply everything I said about the membership of BD to all the kids marching in every corps. I focused my comments on BD because this thread has made them a focus. I am done. I am sure the Mods are ready to kick me off for a few days. I do not wish to get on my "high horse" any more than I have. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWW11 Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, ContraFart said: So BDs alumni will reject them if they lose? For a corps that has only lost DCI 6 times in 20 years, and has not finished lower than 2nd in that time, a 3rd place finish wouldn't be the end of the world. Wow! You really are one for the extremes. I didn’t say they would be rejected. I said they would disappoint them. BIG difference. i’m done. Can’t carry on a conversation with you. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Honestly @jwillis35 and @DWW11 what do you want from me? What is it I am missing? I have already given up on the competitive side of the activity and realized the the norm for the foreseeable future will be BD winning. Is this not good enough? Or is it you want me to embrace that reality? Be happy about the shows I think are all time greats losing to shows I hate? I am done talking about the blue devils because its not worth the headache. Every one of these conversations make me love the activity less both because of the toxicity of some of the people I have interacted with (not you 2), and because of the realizations that nothing is ever going to change. I have and will always root for David, I just wish people would stop trying to convince me that Goliath is so good. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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