I will not be outdone by other Drum Corps Internet Trolls (I own VMAPA.org)

[Jeff Ream]

3 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:

My communication with the mods (in which they've confirmed what you're saying, respectfully) confirms this and I've always known they're in a challenging position. They could have booted me a long time ago and haven't. I've even defended them from other DCPers after they were ready to bash the mods for deleting my comments.

Please be careful of using the term abuse in this context. I'm simply not abusing anyone. I know because I know what abuse is. I know you were perhaps speaking to other frustrated posters here, but, as you've said on this forum before, words matter. And our alum are angry and frustrated when they learn of the numbers of their fellow alum that have been harmed. They shouldn't take it out on others, but perhaps you can understand why it's happening and grant them some grace, pity, or compassion?

None of this changes the fact that we are all enduring an activity that makes it difficult for reporters and survivors to have a voice and contribute their invaluable experience towards the betterment of the activity.

No offense but some of the stuff sent to mods does qualify as a form of abuse. Doing mod work in the Facebook page I can guarantee you that from what personally was sent to me. 
 

abuse comes in many forms. None of it is good. And no matter what form abuse comes in, it’s still abuse. 

[scheherazadesghost]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

No offense but some of the stuff sent to mods does qualify as a form of abuse. Doing mod work in the Facebook page I can guarantee you that from what personally was sent to me. 
 

abuse comes in many forms. None of it is good. And no matter what form abuse comes in, it’s still abuse. 

I was under the impression you were responding to me or about posts within this thread and constituting them as abuse toward the mods. So no offense taken. I'm not an offender. And I can't control other DCPers or FBers who abuse mods.

I didn't say they're never abused. Abuse of any kind is unacceptable. I said this thread doesn't constitute that; or rather anything that has in this thread so far has been removed for being in violation of the rule against personal attacks. And this distinction is important because what we're doing here should have a net positive effect, even if it's difficult to read and moderate.

I am intentionally being calm, rational, and respectful. That has always been my intention, even when I get heated up. Doing so further illustrates the distinction mentioned above. I urge you to turn this gaze upon those who are actually being abusive.

[MarimbaManiac]

20 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

Don’t think those running DCP aren’t sympathetic. But DCP also doesn’t want to end up in court either. Sadly it creates a lose lose. But as DCP charges no membership fees to support the site, the owner isn’t a fan of bankruptcy either.

 

I know that doesn’t satisfy all but it’s a hard truth. Bashing the moderation team for doing their job for protecting the site isn’t going to help. Hell they do it for free so they don’t deserve the abuse

Critique isn't abuse. Let's get that straight. You don't want to mod a forum, don't do it. You don't want to do it ethically or equitably, expect commentary. 

Also, let's imagine a scenario where ANY corps tries to sue DCP because of commentary by posters. I don't anticipate that would go well from a PR or fundraising perspective. Not to mention the discovery they would have to voluntarily open themselves up to. 

Lastly, if discussing the moderation in a negative light is violating the rules of the forum (as was stated previously) so is discussing it in a positive light. This is all a lot of pearl clutching about rules in order to avoid uncomfortable conversations and accountability. 

 

Zero stars. 

[Fred Windish]

Respectfully, what exactly do you want?

Are there 5-6 specific steps in action you can list for readers?

Edited August 2, 2023 by Fred Windish

[scheherazadesghost]

24 minutes ago, Fred Windish said:

Respectfully, what exactly do you want?

Are the 5-6 specific steps in action you can list for readers?

This is not a protest. I have no demands. And I can't speak for anyone else.

All I've ever wanted is for the information to be freely available so that the community can determine appropriate steps for themselves. That's what I did with my open letter on MAASIN in 2021 and it's what I've continued to do for the last two years.

And while I think your question is valid, it's not on the reporters and survivors to make demands or even express wants, as our recovery from abuse is more important and often in direct conflict with the labor of bettering the system. It's on the leadership of the activity to do that. The resources are out there. I've provided them consistently for the last two years. I want them to do the work. Spirit of Atlanta is a good example of what that looks like. I hope their hard work has yielded positive results for members this year and into the future.

Leadership across the activity made it abundantly clear for the last two years that I'm in no position to make demands anyway.

[Fred Windish]

Thank you for responding. This is a difficult situation, no doubt.  

[Jeff Ream]

43 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:

I was under the impression you were responding to me or about posts within this thread and constituting them as abuse toward the mods. So no offense taken. I'm not an offender. And I can't control other DCPers or FBers who abuse mods.

I didn't say they're never abused. Abuse of any kind is unacceptable. I said this thread doesn't constitute that; or rather anything that has in this thread so far has been removed for being in violation of the rule against personal attacks. And this distinction is important because what we're doing here should have a net positive effect, even if it's difficult to read and moderate.

I am intentionally being calm, rational, and respectful. That has always been my intention, even when I get heated up. Doing so further illustrates the distinction mentioned above. I urge you to turn this gaze upon those who are actually being abusive.

Never said you were anything but a gem! My response was to the world at large that cares to read it 

[scheherazadesghost]

Just now, Jeff Ream said:

Never said you were anything but a gem! My response was to the world at large that cares to read it 

Understood.

[Jeff Ream]

40 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:

Critique isn't abuse. Let's get that straight. You don't want to mod a forum, don't do it. You don't want to do it ethically or equitably, expect commentary. 

Also, let's imagine a scenario where ANY corps tries to sue DCP because of commentary by posters. I don't anticipate that would go well from a PR or fundraising perspective. Not to mention the discovery they would have to voluntarily open themselves up to. 

Lastly, if discussing the moderation in a negative light is violating the rules of the forum (as was stated previously) so is discussing it in a positive light. This is all a lot of pearl clutching about rules in order to avoid uncomfortable conversations and accountability. 

 

Zero stars. 

Individuals could sue. And I’m sorry you don’t like how things are moderated. There are guidelines published and they’re to be followed. Take it from me, no one gets a pass, I’ve been suspended and had comments deleted in the past.

 

if you don’t like them, well, there’s other options. 

[MarimbaManiac]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

if you don’t like them, well, there’s other options. 

Yes, though I'm sure you and I differ on which of those other options we would pursue.