I will not be outdone by other Drum Corps Internet Trolls (I own VMAPA.org)

[MarimbaManiac]

16 minutes ago, skevinp said:

Does it occur to anyone that deleting posts that violate policies that protect the site from liability is required to ensure the continued existence of the site so there can still be a place where these things can be discussed?

Are we still trying to pretend that site operators are liable for what's said on their platforms? I feel like the last 8 years would have been a solid crash course on Section 230 for people. 

[Deguello]

20 minutes ago, skevinp said:

Does it occur to anyone that deleting posts that violate policies that protect the site from liability is required to ensure the continued existence of the site so there can still be a place where these things can be discussed?

Your statement is correct, thank you for pointing that out. (It's oftentimes easy to forget how the Real World functions.) For better or worse, you have my chosen profession to thank for that. It's an imperfect system, but I will stick with it until someone comes up with an equitable solution.

[IllianaLancerContra]

1 hour ago, skevinp said:

Does it occur to anyone that deleting posts that violate policies that protect the site from liability is required to ensure the continued existence of the site so there can still be a place where these things can be discussed?

If someone was to try to go to court over something posted about them on DCP, they need to keep in mind that truth is a defense against libel.   The poster would have an opportunity to demonstrate that they are telling the truth, and if the court finds it believable then it could theoretically go to a (civil) trial.  Granted it is unlikely to come to that. But imho the culture of silence and suppression hurts an already stressed activity.

Of course, all of this could be avoided if extant policies were enforced and member abuse stopped. 

[scheherazadesghost]

1 hour ago, MGCpimpOtimp said:

I just went onto their website and their whistleblower submission page indeed takes you to a third party site.

Whistleblower policy on their website

Third party site that the "submit report" button takes you to.

This is an update between now and April of earlier this year that I was no aware of. Thank you.

[scheherazadesghost]

1 hour ago, skevinp said:

Does it occur to anyone that deleting posts that violate policies that protect the site from liability is required to ensure the continued existence of the site so there can still be a place where these things can be discussed?

It does occur to me. I have been clear from the beginning that I understand liabilities. But when all entities that are in control of dialogue prioritize protecting these liabilities (which is fully their right) that leaves no place for reporters and survivors to contribute because they fall in the category of "rumors."

1 hour ago, MGCpimpOtimp said:

Using wayback machine, you can see that it used to be an anonymous form that was submitted from Dec 2022, until March 24th. The next time an archive was taken on June 4th of this year, the new system was in place.

The argument could be made that the efforts I've taken to inform VMAPA of these issues led directly to this action. I informed them that they needed a third party site and better practices in my most recent conversations with them, and alluded to it when I began dialogue with them in 2021. They are reactive.. which is better than nothing, but still not best practices.

And again, you can stand up for the mechanical side of their wb process, but that doesn't mean that people behind it are adequately prepared to handle and integrate such precious information. It's a holistic process and takes a long time and lots of effort to improve. As someone who has been re-traumatized by the process before these updates, I can affirm that wholeheartedly, while also giving them credit for improvements. I'm not a monster. I just demand better for future alum.

Edit to add: their previous handbook indicated that a third party would be implemented back in 2018, so why the holdup in creating the wb process until 2022? There may have been alum that needed to report in that time period that fell through the cracks.

1 hour ago, Deguello said:

Your statement is correct, thank you for pointing that out. (It's oftentimes easy to forget how the Real World functions.) For better or worse, you have my chosen profession to thank for that. It's an imperfect system, but I will stick with it until someone comes up with an equitable solution.

No on hear is operating outside of the real world. In fact, it is systems in the real world that have best practices long established, that I am imploring VMAPA to compare and contrast themselves to in order to improve. For the betterment of future alum.

Edited August 2, 2023 by scheherazadesghost

[BlueStainGlass]

1 hour ago, HockeyDad said:

“Some alum are afraid that speaking up will spell the end of Vanguard.”

Well, it may be that this ship has already sailed.  

Something we agree on. We watched the Glassmen take a season because financial reasons in 2013 and how's that looking. 

[Jeff Ream]

2 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:

👍🏽 I have communicated with mods effectively and respectfully regarding posts that have been removed, and I happily, readily admit that mods reached out to me in some of those case.

I understand liabilities to myself, DCP and affiliated organizations. Prioritizing such liabilities, in the case where my report and character have been corroborated by Vanguard, have only served to protect abusers and enablers. But I get it. It's what the site has to do to protect itself. That simply doesn't negate the end result. And again, DCP is far from the only entity that has reacted to protect itself and drum corps entities/names first, before reporters.

This is further evidence that there is no entity besides MAASIN that protects and serves reporters first. Even they have their limits and advised me not to name names.

Don’t think those running DCP aren’t sympathetic. But DCP also doesn’t want to end up in court either. Sadly it creates a lose lose. But as DCP charges no membership fees to support the site, the owner isn’t a fan of bankruptcy either.

 

I know that doesn’t satisfy all but it’s a hard truth. Bashing the moderation team for doing their job for protecting the site isn’t going to help. Hell they do it for free so they don’t deserve the abuse

[Jeff Ream]

2 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

“Some alum are afraid that speaking up will spell the end of Vanguard.”

Well, it may be that this ship has already sailed.  

They said that about cadets too. And spirit. So who knows. 

[scheherazadesghost]

1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said:

Don’t think those running DCP aren’t sympathetic. But DCP also doesn’t want to end up in court either. Sadly it creates a lose lose. But as DCP charges no membership fees to support the site, the owner isn’t a fan of bankruptcy either.

I know that doesn’t satisfy all but it’s a hard truth. Bashing the moderation team for doing their job for protecting the site isn’t going to help. Hell they do it for free so they don’t deserve the abuse

My communication with the mods (in which they've confirmed what you're saying, respectfully) confirms this and I've always known they're in a challenging position. They could have booted me a long time ago and haven't. I've even defended them from other DCPers after they were ready to bash the mods for deleting my comments.

Please be careful of using the term abuse in this context. I'm simply not abusing anyone. I know because I know what abuse is. I know you were perhaps speaking to other frustrated posters here, but, as you've said on this forum before, words matter. And our alum are angry and frustrated when they learn of the numbers of their fellow alum that have been harmed. They shouldn't take it out on others, but perhaps you can understand why it's happening and grant them some grace, pity, or compassion?

None of this changes the fact that we are all enduring an activity that makes it difficult for reporters and survivors to have a voice and contribute their invaluable experience towards the betterment of the activity.

[Jeff Ream]

1 hour ago, MarimbaManiac said:

Are we still trying to pretend that site operators are liable for what's said on their platforms? I feel like the last 8 years would have been a solid crash course on Section 230 for people. 

DCP doesn’t have Meta or X’s wallet to pay legal fees.