Corps Abuse

[ambassadorhorn]

I was yelled at by a leader last year. It was pretty bad, but there was no cussing involved. I know that on the field though, the F word was offten said a lot. I think that in a corps like Blue Devils, Cavaliers, or other division one corps this is expected. The leaders know that these people are older and more mature. They usually use punishments like pushups and yelling curse words to drive members to the championship level. In most cases, it works.

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When I marched with BD in the stone ages (1984 and 1985) I was never treated like this. We worked hard but were treated with respect. I heard the F-word a few times but never in the context of someone screaming in my face. We were all motivated to make the best show possible and just pointing out my error was enough of a wakeup call for us.

I am not going to sermonize about how to treat youth in drum corps. Instead, have a look at the corps that accept this treatment of their members and have a look at BD. Which way is more effective? The shows and the scores speak for themselves. B)

[troopmello]

All I remember is that my friend Mike bragged because he scored more touchdowns than Emmit Smith. Good old Mike.

We had to run or do pushups for mistakes, its the norm. I had the fastest 1/4 mile of the corps.

[Drum Corps Driver]

I hate to name a specific corps but I know someone (a percussion tech my freshman and sophomore years in high school) who marched bass drum with Madison in 1993 who experienced the abuses described in the original post.  It left a very bad taste in his mouth and though he was invited back for the 1994 season, he chose not to return and my high school band director has said that Madison apparently doesn't always treat their kids very well.  I hope this is the exception rather than the rule.

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I was never treated another near this way at Madison, nor do I know anyone who was. That must be a rare, rare case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've been around Madison for 12 plus years. I've never seen anything like what is described here. Push ups in Madison, I've never heard a staff member tell a member to do push ups, usually the member knows he made the mistake and does the push ups on his own. As far as yelling, I would say it was a rareity! Sure some profanity is used but never to degrade anyone. More like, "What the 4377 was that."

One poster on here said it best, these young men and women are adults and part of being treated like an adult is some language comes with it.

BTW - I also travelled with the Cavies this year. I heard one of the brass guys blow up one night and his response was 100% professional. He never used one cuss word, but he got his point across and during the next run through the guys got it!

Drum Corps is not a baby sitting service, we coddle these young men and women way too much in life in my opinion. Drum Corps is one of the last places in the world were diversity rules. That is the reason I like drum corps so much. It doesn't matter, if your red, yellow, black or white, gay, straight, trans gender, what ever, when a young person marches in drum they are a part of a team! That team has to come together for the common good of the show! In my opinion, drum corps will strengthen any young man/women - physically, emotionally, and culturally.

[scouttimp]

O.K., a little comic relief from a serious subject...

Our frontline arranger in '88 was Marc Jacoby (Max), who went on to teach BD in the early 90's. He didn't want us doing pushups for mistakes, because he thought it would be couterproductive on our wrists.

He wore these Forrest Gump Nikes, except they were black and blue instead of white and red, that he had worn since he marched Muchachos in the 70's- without socks, and never washed.

When we ticked, either individually or as a section, he would ask us if we needed to "smell the shoe".

Sometimes during rehearsals, and even in performance (I remember once in a winners concert!), he could be seen conspicuously in front of us, taking off one shoe and showing it to us.

I made sure NOT to deserve the smelling of the shoe!!!

[mello006]

Question,

Has ANYONE involved in the activity seen this first hand?  Has ANYONE whom has been around a corps when they reherse senn ahything LIKE this?  Has ANYONE whom volunteers for a corps seen such behavior from a staff?

I certainly havent.  I've HEARD about hard #####, but my first hand experiance  in a NUMBER of different postions within the activity has been otherwise.

I'm honestly wondering WHAT program Mr. Band Guy has seen this happen to.  Something just does not ring true..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, actually I have experienced this firsthand. My visual instructor my rookie year was as such. But this past year, I did not experience CONTSTANT obscenities and physical punishments (although, they aren't punishments...it's just that if you can't be getting better at one thing, you might as well get stronger at another), etc, but they're still there. It's in every drum corps. Some, it's more constant than others.

[pressclick]

Wow. I haven’t posted on a drum corp bulletin board since Prodigy in 1995.

I marched a lot in a number of venues. Then I started down a route that culminated in being an Army Airborne Ranger. That basically means that I’ve journeyed to the extreme outer rim of the galaxy of abuse and returned.

During training we utilize profanity that few can imagine and projected at volume levels that could rival the 1992 Cavaliers percussion feature. This is done to reprimand soldiers who have made mistakes that could get themselves or others killed. Could such a technique be useful in correcting a negligent snare drummer? Of course, but the sense of urgency is not the same.

Ranger School involves a realm of physical suffering that often leads one to question whether the light of day will ever be seen again. Can a level of physical difficulty make an activity such as drum corp more rewarding? Perhaps. I don’t consider pushups and running to be abusive. Abuse is a process that takes hours or even days, and it could result in a heat related death. Building the intensity level through some exertion is a technique, but in this situation, it could be construed as abuse very quickly.

Pain and profanity are crutches in a normal teaching situation and no substitute for a positive environment as the Cavies bass drummer has alluded to. However, adversity builds cohesion when used properly, and it makes for some good stories and personal pride on down the road as some of the posts demonstrate.

In conclusion, it’s the instructor’s choice, but they should know what they are doing, not ask anything that they wouldn’t do themselves, never discipline out of blind anger, and be VERY careful about crossing the line. Drum corp is about kids being the best they can be and not about forging obedience through fear or teachers living out their power trip fantasies.

Jeff

[wells84]

as for the bad words.....i agree..we should all be able to get our point across without saying them....BUT.....as for most of todays youth foul language is a part of the every day experince....wether its telling a story or talking about you feel like @#$$ because you are sick. or listening to the raido.

Drum Corps is not church camp.....as far as i can tell you are there to act be treated to be treated like an adult......and aduts have adult conversation.....i dont agree with using foul language to hurt someon e....EX: " adam you are a peice of s%$t becaus eyou cant play that clean."

i dont see a problem with some one saying " what teh h@ll is going on drum line?!?! you played that better 3 reps ago."

and as for running and pushups.....i in no way see it as punishment.....

that term has so many negitive aspects about it....

i prefer Physical motivation.

there are always going to be people who ruin it for others.....they should lose their job.......there is no excuse for punishing someone because your mad......becasue that only makes you feel better...

when someone needs a wake up call or is not focused 100%, a lill phyisical motivation helps.

i am in my later years of college and will someday soon be a teacher...using foul language in schools is just unprofesional. we all know that. But if you think making your marching band do pushups because they are being unfocused is reasonable.

if you think it is wrong to have a band do push ups,,,,,just go check out the next HS football practice after your team losess a game. you will most likely see physical motivation at its peak.

[kinane3]

It's hard to believe that this kind of thing is still going on. It really is old school to do this kind of thing and I'm not necessarily referring to drum corps specifically but in any educational setting. Military ethics serve a purpose in the military but in drum corps or any other educational setting it has no value. I'm not suggesting that corps become a hug-fest but corporal punishment, either physical or verbal, is pointless. Treating members as professionals is key: they will respond the way they are regarded.

I didn't catch which corps this was going on in but either the director is unaware of this going on or is unwilling to do anything about it. If the later is true get your kid out of there! He'll just learn to hate drum corps! It could also be potentially dangerous! The legal implications are almost definately fatal for this corps and it will enjoy a short life span if it continues to embrace this kind of philosophy.

Edited October 2, 2004 by kinane3

[MikeD]

It's hard to believe that this kind of thing is still going on.  It really is old school to do this kind of thing and I'm not necessarily referring to drum corps specifically but in any educational setting.  Military ethics serve a purpose in the military but in drum corps or any other educational setting it has no value.  I'm not suggesting that corps become a hug-fest but corporal punishment, either physical or verbal, is pointless.  Treating members as professionals is key: they will respond the way they are regarded. 

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In my Garfield years, 70-72, nothing remotely like that ever happened.

Mike

[kinane3]

In my Garfield years, 70-72, nothing remotely like that ever happened.

Mike

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I really should be more careful with the term "old school". I know when I hear it from someone else it can come off the wrong way to me as well. I didn't mean to imply that corps past were old school. Certainly Garfield has always been to my knowledge a professionally operated organization with a strong tradition and sound philosophy. This is true of many organizations still in operation and for many that faded away.