Cruel and Unusual Punishment?

[ptr250]

Wayne used to tell us stories about Jack when Wayne was marching SCV and Jack was teaching......sounded like Jack was intense......(although, the cig. thing doesn't sound like him).

He did mellow from what we heard......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't witness the cig incident, just relaying what Jim told us that night. Remember the Troopers never expected the little kids from CA to beat them and maybe Jim might of been a little cocky when he went to shake Jack's hand!

[mrshowfan]

At Madison, if one made a mistake obvious enough for the staff to see it, then that person would get called out. I remember doing a basics block and an instructor saying something to the effect of "(insert name), these are your toes speaking, lift me up, lift me up". We also had a beacon of suck, which was a hat that made you look like an idiot. It would be equivalent to wearing a dunce hat in rehearsal. I heard in 96 after a free day, where just about everyone was hungover, Stewart ran basics, and ran the corps members into the ground.

One last one that I'll share, that I'll never forget is when a staff member pretty much told us that we sucked during one part, then spat in disgust in our general direction.

But, when all these things are said and done, you know that the instructor (and everyone else on staff) is your corps brother, and that he wore the uniform before you did, and you respected that. When you let a staff member down, Stewart especially, them telling you that they were "very dissapointed" was heartbreaking. Sometimes words did more damage than physical punishment I think.

[felixh]

At Madison, if one made a mistake obvious enough for the staff to see it, then that person would get called out. I remember doing a basics block and an instructor saying something to the effect of "(insert name), these are your toes speaking, lift me up, lift me up".  We also had a beacon of suck, which was a hat that made you look like an idiot. It would be equivalent to wearing a dunce hat in rehearsal. I heard in 96 after a free day, where just about everyone was hungover, Stewart ran basics, and ran the corps members into the ground. 

One last one that I'll share, that I'll never forget is when a staff member pretty much told us that we sucked during one part, then spat in disgust in our general direction.

But, when all these things are said and done, you know that the instructor (and everyone else on staff) is your corps brother, and that he wore the uniform before you did, and you respected that.  When you let a staff member down, Stewart especially,  them telling you that they were "very dissapointed" was heartbreaking. Sometimes words did more damage than physical punishment I think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is kind of sad. When you pay to be part of an organization you should not expect that kind of behavior from the staff whether they are former corps members or not. However, it is useless to go into detail as this thread deals with our experiences. All I can say is that while I was with the Blue Devils, it seems that the maturity level was high and we were pretty much all business...we had our fun, but only after we had taken care of business. This was different in the Kingsmen where, although I do not remember any spitting, we did many endurance drills and the discipline was harsh....depending on which instructor was dishing it out. Many good and bad cops....

[84BDsop]

At Madison, if one made a mistake obvious enough for the staff to see it, then that person would get called out. I remember doing a basics block and an instructor saying something to the effect of "(insert name), these are your toes speaking, lift me up, lift me up".  We also had a beacon of suck, which was a hat that made you look like an idiot. It would be equivalent to wearing a dunce hat in rehearsal. I heard in 96 after a free day, where just about everyone was hungover, Stewart ran basics, and ran the corps members into the ground.

*snort* Beacon of suck....pardon me while I wipe the teares of laughter from my eyes!!!

One last one that I'll share, that I'll never forget is when a staff member pretty much told us that we sucked during one part, then spat in disgust in our general direction.

I'll agree with Felix here...the spitting is a tad extreme, given the insult we attach to spitting on someone.

But, when all these things are said and done, you know that the instructor (and everyone else on staff) is your corps brother, and that he wore the uniform before you did, and you respected that.  When you let a staff member down, Stewart especially,  them telling you that they were "very dissapointed" was heartbreaking. Sometimes words did more damage than physical punishment I think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about!

[bd5times]

One last one that I'll share, that I'll never forget is when a staff member pretty much told us that we sucked during one part, then spat in disgust in our general direction.

I think if that had happened to us, that instructor would have received a snuggy right there on the spot. When I marched, the staff and members were pretty close. There wasn't much of a barrier from staff to member.

Different attitudes in different corps.

There was an article that quoted one of our staff members and it goes something long the lines of:

"We don't say to the members we're going to make you win the World Championship. We're going to provide the members with the tools and it's up to the members to win. We say 'this is your World Championship to win....it's up to you'

We don't make the kids do push-ups or laps when they make mistakes. Members don't need to be punished, they know if they made a mistake and they'll work to fix it. The members are essentially self driven.".

That's not an exact quote, but the spirit of the quote that I remember. That was our experience.

[felixh]

I think if that had happened to us, that instructor would have received a snuggy right there on the spot.  When I marched, the staff and members were pretty close.  There wasn't much of a barrier from staff to member. 

Different attitudes in different corps.

There  was an article that quoted one of our staff members and it goes something long the lines of:

"We don't say to the members we're going to make you win the World Championship.  We're going to provide the members with the tools and it's up to the members to win.  We say 'this is your World Championship to win....it's up to you' 

We don't make the kids do push-ups or laps when they make mistakes.  Members don't need to be punished, they know if they made a mistake and they'll work to fix it.  The members are essentially self driven.".

That's not an exact quote, but the spirit of the quote that I remember.  That was our experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like I said, this is pretty sad. As adults, we should know that there are several forms of discipline. Demeaning or yelling do not make for a champion, anymore than having the best hornline. What makes a champion in my eyes and as with any other sport is self-discipline....my 18 year old son can probably explain this a lot better than me since he enjoys my method more than I do. His friends always tell him that he has a cool dad...of course he did not always feel this way....which leads me to also say that accountability is a big part of being a champion as well...the big money thing is also a factor, however, you can throw all the money into a corps, but if the self-discipline and accountability are not in place, they will never win....ranting done!

[felixh]

I think if that had happened to us, that instructor would have received a snuggy right there on the spot.  When I marched, the staff and members were pretty close.  There wasn't much of a barrier from staff to member. 

Different attitudes in different corps.

There  was an article that quoted one of our staff members and it goes something long the lines of:

"We don't say to the members we're going to make you win the World Championship.  We're going to provide the members with the tools and it's up to the members to win.  We say 'this is your World Championship to win....it's up to you' 

We don't make the kids do push-ups or laps when they make mistakes.  Members don't need to be punished, they know if they made a mistake and they'll work to fix it.  The members are essentially self driven.".

That's not an exact quote, but the spirit of the quote that I remember.  That was our experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since I do not know how to paste just the quote I intended to use, the whole passage is here. I agree 100% with bd5times. The Blue Devils staff would never stoop to this level and actually did not even have to set the tone. I always remember a senior member or veteran pulling you aside or maybe even after a run through or rehearsal and calmly tell you what you did wrong...respect for the individual, hard work, self-respect, and accountablity= Champion...in every sense of the word!

[ptr250]

Seeing the posts from the various BD alumni can’t but make me believe the reason they never experienced any uncivil behavior from their staff was because of Jerry Seawright! I don’t think Jerry would ever tolerate that type of discipline. Jerry was truly a great person!

[felixh]

Seeing the posts from the various BD alumni can’t but make me believe the reason they never experienced any uncivil behavior from their staff was because of Jerry Seawright! I don’t think Jerry would ever tolerate that type of discipline. Jerry was truly a great person!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jerry was a great man and had confidence in his staff and the corps members. There always seemed to be an atmosphere of professionalism while at rehearsals and performances, at least while I marched.

[84BDsop]

Seeing the posts from the various BD alumni can’t but make me believe the reason they never experienced any uncivil behavior from their staff was because of Jerry Seawright! I don’t think Jerry would ever tolerate that type of discipline. Jerry was truly a great person!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also might contribute to BD's incredible run at the top....since 1975 they's been no lower than 5th...and that 5th was a one time deal in 91.

The low stress within the staff/member relationship probably mirrored to a certain degree that within the staff. members can tell when there are tensions...and it affects their own work ethic.