Phantom's Wedge

[Tsar Nikk]

Not that odd when you consider how #### clean BD was and the level of demand that Cadets had that year.  Plus you have to admit that no matter how #### cool Phantom '96 was musically and even though the visuals were perfect for the music, they weren't exactly on par in the demand category with the other top 6 corps.  Not knocking the corps at all, afterall it is my favorite show of all time after Star '93.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sigh...I know this is going to tick people off, but....sigh...oh well.

BD was NOT clean at Finals. Even on the DVD you see an awful lot of dirt.

And as for Cadets...I think someone once timed the parts in their show where they scatter drill and don't actually march (by the traditional definition of the term) and it was something like 3 minutes. Cadets always march very fast, but...

...I don't know, someone help me out here. I'm actually interested in hearing others' opinions:

I have always been of the opinion that geometric drill and straight line stuff is a slight bit harder than strict re-shape and curvilinear drill because those forms are not as easy to "nail" (from a judges' AND fans' perspective) if they are not clean. In other words...take one of my favourite shows ever, Garfield 1987. Your average fan would not know what half those forms were supposed to be...heck, I STILL don't know some of them, though it doesn't prevent me from thinking they were great. Now, take something like Cavaliers' Four Corners...if you seriously miss a form, people are likely going to catch it.

What do people have to say about it? Is curvilinear/reshape harder, or is geometric/linear harder?

[RobRoy]

I'm not sure you can say one is "harder" than the other without defining what "hard" means.

[Tsar Nikk]

I'm not sure you can say one is "harder" than the other without defining what "hard" means.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hard =

1. Difficult to march correctly. In other words, members might have trouble making their correct spot all the time.

2. Difficult to clean and keep clean on a day-to-day basis.

3. Another question is...is it easy for the audience (and judges) to pick when something is wrong? If it's a form or style in which the audience or judges can pick a wrong formation easily, then that could be construed as a harder style to march correctly.

4. Hard could also be applied to the level of stress/rigor in marching the drill, but the fact is....you can have 8 count moves at m.m. = 220bpm in either style, so it doesn't really stick with any one style.

Feel free to add any other definitions that pop up and I've missed.

[davam]

I have always been of the opinion that geometric drill and straight line stuff is a slight bit harder than strict re-shape and curvilinear drill because those forms are not as easy to "nail" (from a judges' AND fans' perspective) if they are not clean.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree. When a line isn't straight, it's very noticeably. Some sort of curvy form could be anything. That's why I think a lot of corps these day either shy away from the company front or hit for only a count or two before breaking it up -- too hard to get clean.

Also, some corps rarely attempt tight formations, instead keeping a good distance (say 2-3 yards) between their members. Tight formations are also more difficult to clean.

[Cardman]

Not that odd when you consider how #### clean BD was and the level of demand that Cadets had that year.  Plus you have to admit that no matter how #### cool Phantom '96 was musically and even though the visuals were perfect for the music, they weren't exactly on par in the demand category with the other top 6 corps.  Not knocking the corps at all, afterall it is my favorite show of all time after Star '93.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was there at finals in '96, and I remember both the Blue Devils and Phantom's shows very well. Yes, Blue Devils were very clean, but Phantom was just as clean. I disagree with you as far as Phantom's visuals not being on par with the other top 6 demand-wise. I was there, and that's the memory I have of it...(you may have been there, too, I don't know...)

[bssop97]

People are quick to forget that Phantom won GE Vis in 96.

[Sideways]

I will still stand by what I said. I agree, as Shannon has pointed out above, that Phantoms visual package definitely was the most effective that night, but as far as execution combined with demand (drill and color guard included) I would be hard pressed to place Phantom above Devs and Cadets that night.

Please don't take offense I am not dogging them at all. Phantom was easily my favorite show of that season and I thought that should have won outright that night.

[bbass74]

John Brazale died (  :(  ) after the 1992 season, so we haven't seen it out of the corps since then. 

They did it in 03', it was great seeing them do it then but I think that's been the only time since 92'.

[bbass74]

What do people have to say about it?  Is curvilinear/reshape harder, or is geometric/linear harder?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A straight line or forward front will always be harder because it's very noticeable if someone is just slightly off. Why do you think you don't see moves like Madison doing the rotating front? Only they try to pull it off but you don't see that move in a champoinship performace! Madison does it because they don't have anything to lose and they're they have the balls to do it. Cadets will pull it out every now and then, at least a front but not lately that I can remember.

[TexasPRfan]

Sigh...I know this is going to tick people off, but....sigh...oh well.

BD was NOT clean at Finals.  Even on the DVD you see an awful lot of dirt.

And as for Cadets...I think someone once timed the parts in their show where they scatter drill and don't actually march (by the traditional definition of the term) and it was something like 3 minutes.  Cadets always march very fast, but...

...I don't know, someone help me out here.  I'm actually interested in hearing others' opinions:

I have always been of the opinion that geometric drill and straight line stuff is a slight bit harder than strict re-shape and curvilinear drill because those forms are not as easy to "nail" (from a judges' AND fans' perspective) if they are not clean. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

w/Stp: I agree with every bit of that, Nikk.