tired of it all

[MikeD]

Brian,

So well said. Everyone is pationate about the activity but everyone has a different perspective on what and how drum corps is/should be. I would never tell the newbies to drum corps that like the way it is to get out of DCI! I wish for them to experience i had from 89-92. But I also know it won't be the same experience. The same feeling of pride and accomplishment may be there but like everyone has stated, it's just not the same. But one thing I've learned from vets older than me, is that we can all still get together and learn from each other and in some ways, find that we have allot in common. So to you guys/gals who are new to the activity who would like to see us "old fogies" go, I think you're passing up part of what makes drum corps great... it's history. Telling the vets to leave is like telling your grandparents to give up on life because things aren't the way they use to be! We're not telling the newbies to leave so therefore the newbies shouldn't be doing the same of the vets. Let's all just be glad with what we have and figure out a way to make the activity better, where everyone is happy. (is that a Disney theme I hear playing???)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think those people want all of us old-timers to leave. I think they are saying that about those who sit back and trash what they are doing and how they do it....those the kvetch about almost everything that happens in DCI, be it amps or Bb/F horns, or music choices, or "blowing our faces off" or retreats or...

The people who do that are not, IMO, passing on what was great about our era (whatever era that may have been). They make us look like spoiled children, no matter what our ages, who whine and complain if we don't get what we want.

Mike, drum corps member/instructor/judge/fan for 41 years

[GMichael1230]

G,

Why must you begin your post with such a personal attack lke that? If you disagree with the guy's POV, tell him why, but IMO making statements like the above has no place in DCP.

Mike

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh Mike, Please !! Where does it get personal ? Its a generalization. A conclusion I formed, an opinion if you will about a certain group of nameless, faceless people......far from personal, but if the shoe fits. You really only see what you want. Do you know how many times Ive been subtley attacked by one of your cohorts and it goes unnoticed by you ? But thats ok, because they are on your side of the issue....double standard to the max. Everytime you chide me for a personal attack, I ask you to prove it, you come back with an "Its just my opinion" Quite frankly, stop attacking me for you reading something you dont like......Im well within the guidlelines as everyone else doing just as they wish.

~G~

[wesleyrp]

Hello all. I believe that there are some very valid points to all of the posts during this dialogue. I really don't like negativity towards the drum corps activity but I also see it as a necessary evil. For instance, what fun would we all have posting here on DCP if someone else did not have an opinion? What makes a forum like this one so great is that we all value each others opinion, but we are not always going to agree. I believe it is the hardest thing in life to disagree with someone whole heartidly yet respect their voice. I mean think about it, what would we really get out of the prediential elections if we did not get to see the candidates debate and speak their position. While i agree that there are other forums all over the internet, I do not believe that the makers of this website wanted everyone to agree or be positive about every subject. If every post on this site were rosy then there probably would not be a lot of posts being made here. If you look down the current lists of topics, look at the ones that people had heated opinions about, and you'll find that these are the most replied to topics. I do, like anyone take offense to someone our beloved activity, but I am glad they have the courage to voice their opinion.

Wes Perkins

BK '97 '98

[bonesinPA]

So i figured with 6 pages already i'll comment again on what i said in the beginning:

my "just leave already" comment was pointed towards individuals i've seen on here who have said that they never want to go to another Div 1 show again, etc, etc. i just feel that instead of just stating these opinions on here, do something with action and not attend. I believe Lancer Lady even said that its not just going to be a few people leaving but a whole generation of fans. that much of a drop in sales would certainly send more of a message than wasting your breath on here.

But in defense realize this....... That generation of people that were filling both sides of the stands......you're now the generation in charge of DCI, as directors, show designers, captions, techs, etc of these corps that you no longer enjoy!!!! odd situation isnt it?

i know also that this thread has taken a "DCI: love it or leave it" feel and thats wrong. drum corps should be appreciated through and through, and i have no doubt that the talent and dedication of the members is not unnoticed by all of us here. i just think this is something very pure and steadfast it terms of what the members and fans gain out of it, no matter how it changes/evolves whatever.

and in closing, to that older generation (this is not an attack), realize you are just that, the older generation. and despite being a percent of the DCI audience, realize this......DCI is in the future of MY generation, the high school/college age generation. we are the target audience. We are the ones whose children will be marching someday, we are the ones who will be teaching future members, writing the shows, creating the ideas, etc. and realize we are a generation raised with TV, Internet, cell phones, a whole global network basically at our disposal. No longer does the youth have to go to a gallery/textbook to see a picasso, or pull out a 33/cassett to listen to mahlers 2nd. with the touch of a button we have that in front of us!! and so has society changed. in the 50s, TV producers would only show elvis waist up because he was thrusting around on stage, now every rap video has atleast 5 half naked women shaking their #####.

i think i've used up my anaolgy quota for the summer so i hope you get the point. just realize things are going to change, I'M NOT SAYING YOU HAVE TO LIKE IT, i'm just saying if you dont and it bothers you that much stop #####ing on here and do something about it, like maybe....leave. ^0^

[MikeD]

Oh Mike, Please !! Where does it get personal ? Its a generalization. A conclusion I formed, an opinion if you will about a certain group of nameless, faceless people......far from personal, but if the shoe fits. You really only see what you want. Do you know how many times Ive been subtley attacked by one of your cohorts and it goes unnoticed by you ? But thats ok, because they are on your side of the issue....double standard to the max. Everytime you chide me for a personal attack, I ask you to prove it, you come back with an "Its just my opinion" Quite frankly, stop attacking me for you reading something you dont like......Im well within the guidlelines as everyone else doing just as they wish.

~G~

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The guy made a "Don't like it, just leave" statement..you then said this...

"Don't like it, just leave" usualy is the battle cry, or cop-ot cry, if you will, from those with poor debating skills, those willing to not accept that there are othr with opinion that differ from theirs, those having poor social interaction skills, or greedy, self-centered people that have something the way they want it and refuse to entertain the idea that maybe, just maybe there is another wat, a better way...anything but what is perfect just for them.

Since he had just said that, IMO that is an attack on him personally. Phrases like 'poor social interaction skills' and 'greedy, self-centered people' are hardly generalizations IMO, since you are responding to the person who just said what he said.

Mike

[Long Time Fan]

A few random observations:

I greatly enjoy the old-timers on the boards, it is important to be reminded about what this activity was way back when. Even if the reminder is negative in tone, it causes me to think and assess what I am hearing at shows. Keep up the, "When I was in Corps..."

I sat in front of a man and his wife at Murfreesboro. We struck up a conversation and I found out that he marched with Phantom in '83 and '84 (euphonium I think). He had not been to a show in a very long time, greater than 10 years. We talked about what had changed: 128 vs. 135, B flat horns, large pits, amps, retreats, and many other things. His observations - the musicianship and integrated sound, the speed, the number things going on simultaneously, and the quality of all 8 shows. There was much that they liked, some that they did not. Just one point of view.

We need the fan base. Back in the early '70s when I first saw drum corps as an adult there were hundreds of corps. The number of participants (marchers) were a self perpetuating crowd of ticket purchasers as they aged out. Now we have very few marchers by comparison. Without marketing and changing to draw in those who have never been in drum corps we will die out. It is that simple. We do not create enough to replace our fan base. This new influx must come from the outside. We must think of ourselves as an entertainment medium that must sell itself. Change will have to occur...hopefully with restraint.

In my opinion, if an old timer can't appreciate Phantom's show this year, they are not really open to what is being put on the field today. The music is recognizable, the drill is outstanding, the energy is there. Yes they are using amps this year, but most would not know it if they were not told. Yes they have a man in the guard, but that does not alter the skill in the performance. I like it!

Comment on what you don't like, but don't let it blind you to the really good shows this year.

[SBrancheau]

Sally has left the building. Count me in the 12 or 15 to leave.

I live in Indianapolis, but I did not go to the show this year. Why? Didn't interest me. I don't want to have to check the "liner notes" for what each corps is trying to convey. I don't want to see corps in "cookie cutter" uniforms (mostly black) without personality or identity. I don't want to see scantily clad guard members "emoting" while tossing equipment and performing ballet moves on a football field.

Now, this is in NO way an attack on the KIDS. Yay to the kids...kudos to them for what they do and how they do it. It's the adults who are steering drum corps the way it's currently going that I have issues with.

I'm going to have to investigate DCA, because my attention and interest are being fed with DCI.

[RB Ripley]

double post!

Edited August 4, 2005 by RB Ripley

[RB Ripley]

...even if the reminder is negative in tone, it causes me to think and assess what I am hearing at shows...His observations - the musicianship and integrated sound, the speed, the number things going on simultaneously, and the quality of all 8 shows.  There was much that they liked, some that they did not.  Just one point of view...We must think of ourselves as an entertainment medium that must sell itself...Change will have to occur...hopefully with restraint...Comment on what you don't like, but don't let it blind you to the really good shows this year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you ever thought of running for elected office? :P

Well observed and accessibly communicated.

[ravedodger]

The number of participants (marchers) were a self perpetuating crowd of ticket purchasers as they aged out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the best part. Drum corps creates fans through veterans of the activity. This still holds true today. Typically, fans are people who have marched, related to someone who has marched or knows someone has marched (or marching in the present tense). I don't think I've met a single person who saw an ad in a newspaper and decided to go to a drumcorps show and suddenly became a fan. Most people who attend a show for the first time do so because they are school aged and in a marching band, or they come kicking and screaming because a veteran has somehow coersed the person into coming.