The day drum corps died.

[Tansea]

Hey Bill... remember those Slingerland tymps we got in 78?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't help but break in, but do you mean the one's with the cranks on the sides? Those were awesome. Sounded like crap, but it was a great idea. I asked Fred Sandford, who repping Slingerland at the time, why they didn't aplly that principle to snare drums instead. Can you imagine snare drums that could play fully cranked like today's, but could also go down and rumble? Think about it.

[Tansea]

Yes Mike, maybe to YOU, drum corps is still drum corps.

However, to others, it's face is getting a cosmetic make over that others get can't recognize as drum corps.

It's STARTING to look more like marching band, something that many from the 70's would have killed you for saying back then !!!!    b**bs        :(  <**>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I marched with SCV I had the privilage of marching with J.W. Keoster, once director of SCV and now has something to do with Div II and III for DCI. We were performing at a local college half time and were lining up to go on. Someone innocently walked by and commented how good, "The Band", looked. J.W. got "The Look" on his face and spouted out, "We're a Drum Corps, gawd #### it!" This guy turned around and started to get an attitude, but the cymbal line moved up enough and he walked away.

Drum corps, as I commented when I first got here, is a passionate thing. That is why so many people who gave of their hearts and soul, many who gave up their primary instruments in order to do it, are soooo frigg'n ###### off at this development.

Oh and Mike D., you should know better. You have been around since the '60s, You were there when it was still coming out of the churches to keep kids on the straight and narrow. "Oh yea, he's right." Remember when drum corps used to take a bunch of disinfrachised kids and give them something usefull to do? Remember the Chicago Royalaires? The Kilties? The Holy Name Cadets? What happened to you Mike? When did you become a tool? Yea I know, I'll get censored for this, or kicked off, but I am passionate about my drum corps, I am passionate about what is happening to it and the tools who are allowing to happen.

I did an informal poll tomyself an noticed that most of the people who are in favor of the woodwind thing in drum corps never marched and/or are band directors. Hmmmm..

Oh and Mike D., I apologize, you probably have a vested interest in seeing this happen and I don't want to walk on your hustle.

[Laconic913]

If there was no such thing as marching band, if woodwinds only existed in orchestras, how many would still be revolted at their proposed inclusion? That's not a very fair question to ask, I know, since some won't be able to disassociate the stigma of bands from clarinets and saxophones. (That's all I'm going to say about woodwinds, the rest of this has to do with other changes effected in corps).

In my opinion, bands have become like corps, not the other way around. From my impression of videos of both activities from the 50's forward, they looked and sounded roughly the same (barring instrumentation) until the 80's. At that point corps began to pull ahead design-wise. Looking at videos from the late 80's and early 90's, corps had a very obvious edge when it came to performance and design.

Throughout the 90's, though, bands began to increase their proficiency in these areas. Looking at videos from 1991 and 2001 for both activities, the change in corps was subtly noticeable. The change in bands, however, was drastic. They went from direct arrangements, simple drill, usually no theme or concept to speak of, to what you see today. Bands have once again nearly caught up to corps. In terms of drill, they'll never be there; time constraints mean they'll never be able to do the level of complex drill corps will. Music- and concept-wise, though, they are as advanced, or more advanced that some corps.

If you ask me, it's because the marching band scene lends itself more to experimentation. An ugly word, I know. Who wants to progress. Bands do, obviously; they become more corps-like every year, to the point that some corps are using ideas tried first in marching bands. Another concept that will offend some, but, like it or not, corps are not always the front-runners of marching pageantry anymore. People complain about corps becoming like marching bands. With the exception of woodwinds, they haven't. In my observations, marching band has become like drum corps, and then some.

[susantaylor40]

I can't help but break in, but do you mean the one's with the cranks on the sides? Those were awesome. Sounded like crap, but it was a great idea.

Yep, those are those puppies. They were as light as all get out, but you couldn't get any upper ranges on them, because the "spiders" would break from the tension... an added problem to replacing heads.

[70's Dutch Boy]

"Reports of the death of drum corps - once again - are greatly exaggerated."

Sorry to see you go - but have fun!  Here's a Yahoo newsgroup where you'll no doubt feel more comfortable:  Drumcorps of the '60s & '70s Yahoo Newsgroup

Also - no, never mind, it's simply not worth it.... ::::   :(

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK..."Reports of the death of drum corps - once again - are greatly exaggerated."

Fine...blow a sax and call it drum corps. Put clarinets on the field and call it drum corps. Put all the woodwinds you want on the field and call it drum corps. Cripe put electric guitars on the field. How about some keyboards and maybe a synthisizer(sp)...wait...gotta keep up with the times you say...how about a turntable with a record so you can make rap/hip hop sounds. Wait a sec....with all these changes how can it be drum & bugle corps? How about drum & fife band? drum & all instrument band? a post high school marching band? But IT IS NOT DRUM & BUGLE CORPS!!!!

Sue...vague memory. I unfortunately left drum corps in '77.

[70's Dutch Boy]

I loved the tymp line and the sounds I could get from that drum....the cranks were great! When I was marching them they were heavy and one built up great back muscles carrying them. Spider tymp was always light to me as I was the one in the line carrying the largest one.

I don't understand using orchastra tymps now, nor a drum line that doesn't use rudimental drumming, nor snares that don't sound like snares, nor not marching, nor colour guard that dance and dress in costumes, nor woodwinds, nor pits, nor amps, nor trumpets etc. etc.

It no longer looks or feels or sounds like drum & bugle corps.

[70's Dutch Boy]

I notice no one has replyed to this statement,"You have to keep it recognizable to those who pay $ to see shows...you know the fan base...or you lose the fans. Let's see them change a major sport or symphony in such a way so many times and see if they keep the fans and the activity alive."

[MikeBob]

When I marched with SCV I had the privilage of marching with J.W. Keoster, once director of SCV and now has something to do with Div II and III for DCI. We were performing at a local college half time and were lining up to go on. Someone innocently walked by and commented how good, "The Band", looked. J.W. got "The Look" on his face and spouted out, "We're a Drum Corps, gawd #### it!" This guy turned around and started to get an attitude, but the cymbal line moved up enough and he walked away.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Y'know, I have nothing but respect for JW and SCV, but this attitude benefits no one. The guy was complimenting your group-- but in return, he was attacked for it. Is it his fault 99% of the population didn't/doesn't know what drum corps was/is? IMO, defensive, insular attitudes like this have been a big reason drum corps, as an activity, enjoys the marginal status it does today (and did back then).

I don't want it to become marching band either, but the steady decline of membership over the decades may have less to do with the changing face of the activity and more to do with the changing face of society. Alienating anyone who has the gall to confuse drum corps with marching band doesn't help.

[Bob Brady]

I notice no one has replyed to this statement,"You have to keep it recognizable to those who pay $ to see shows...you know the fan base...or you lose the fans. Let's see them change a major sport or symphony in such a way so many times and see if they keep the fans and the activity alive."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK-I'll reply!

You sir, are 100% correct!!

[Tansea]

Y'know, I have nothing but respect for JW and SCV, but this attitude benefits no one.  The guy was complimenting your group-- but in return, he was attacked for it.  Is it his fault 99% of the population didn't/doesn't know what drum corps was/is?  IMO, defensive, insular attitudes like this have been a big reason drum corps, as an activity, enjoys the marginal status it does today (and did back then).

I don't want it to become marching band either, but the steady decline of membership over the decades may have less to do with the changing face of the activity and more to do with the changing face of society.  Alienating anyone who has the gall to confuse drum corps with marching band doesn't help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have nothing but respect for your opinion, however, it was this attitde that gave drum corps its uniqueness. As for the declining membership, sorry about your corps, by the way, it has more to do with the fact that the average kid can't just walk up to a corps and join any more. Used to be, before even my time, corps were made up of kids that had never even considered playing an instrument in their lives, let alone performing with them - and some of them actually became credible musicians. Used to be that every town, at least back east and in the midwest, had a drum corps and they would have their little circuit and they were proud when they came in fourth in that circuit, because they did something that they never expected they could do. Oh and society hasn't changed that much; the gangs that drum corps were started to prevent, still exist, the disinfranchised kids that drum corps were started to give a place to go to, still are there. The face of drum corps has changed. It's a hustle now. Some call it business, but where I come from it is a hustle. I have been away for a while, so I need more information about the actual business structure of DCI to make any further comments.

Drum corps came from violence. It came from the violence of war, it came from the violence of the streets and it's uniqueness was the violence of it's music. It was loud and brash, most corps sounded like crap, even by the standards of the day, but they were loud and they made the stands rock. There were corps that eixisted knowing that they would never win a national title, not even a local title, but they were loud and they had heart. Those kids had heart. Oh and there was some guy/girl standing in front of them making marks on a sheet every time they made a mistake. But they kept coming back - some of them into their late 20's(Muchachos).

That was the difference between marching band and drum corps. You had to go to school to be in marching band, most corps were made up of drop outs who couldn't read music, but were given intsruction via some weird notation based on whether or not they used a piston or rotor or both - or not. The better drummers knew rudiments and were told to play them in this spot for this length of time, etc. That was why there was such violent responce to being called a band. And actually when corrected most people would respond with respect for the fact that we stood up for our activity, that we had the balls, for lack of a better word, to stand up and define our self worth, beyond something else, that had very little to do with us. And in the above mentioned case, the guy in question actually apologized and corrected himself and called us a corps.

Now don't get me wrong, this isn't a case of to much caffiene, not enough psycho-tropics. I don't long for the return of the days of VFW or the American Legion, all I am asking for is a respect for something that has remained unique for it's entire existence. there are gerations of people who gave of their hearts and souls for this unique activity, I talk to people who are in their later years who did this thing long before I was even thought of. We are all very proud of the fact that Drum Corps has reached the point it has, but leave it its dignity and uniqueness. Leave the opportunity for kids that would never have a chance to do this thing we call drum corps intact.

Aw enough...bring it on.