New Adjudication System Proposal

[Lieut. General Effect]

Some worthy proposal changes here. I'd make another : Since judging Corps is so important in this competitive activity we call " Drum Corps Competitions, " there needs to be a published resume of the judges that will judge the Quarters, Semi's, and the Finals. This should be made public well in advance of the Finals. Corps members, staff, and fans would know who would be judging these shows months in advance . The DCI Championship book given out to those attending Championship week should have the judges profile in the book. The public should know the judges training, experience, what Corps he or she marched in, taught and when, what colleges he or she attended,the innovations he or she has made to the Drum Corps movement, Manufactures of equipment and Instrumentation he or she has worked previously with ( or currently ), and a brief blurb about his or her personal life, ie hobby's, married, children, or single, his or her employment outside of judging, etc, just basic stuff here on the personal side. Personalize these important people. They afterall, hold in balance the kids and staff placements of their Corps who are working so hard at what they do.

Why not do this ? Open up the process of who the judges are. They probably have impeccable backgrounds. This might alleviate the fears that these folks are not equipped to judge shows fairly. Why the current mystery ? I'm assuming there is nothing to hide. So just let the public know and learn just who these important judges are that are judging come Finals week. Right now, many in the public who attend the competitions come Finals week have no idea, not a wit, as to who these judges are., and their background. That needs to change. That's my suggestion for an additional proposal to bring more openess to the public on the DCI judges come Finals week.

Edited August 14, 2005 by Lieut. General Effect

[madscout96]

General Effect (20 points). The reason for reducing the caption by 20 points is simple: It is by far the most subjective of any caption. Who does it affect? The judges? The fans? The single biggest problem with the GE caption is that it puts the job of finding some sort of emotional impact in the hands of people who are trained to find mistakes...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think GE counting for at least 40% of total is very important for paying customers. Yes, it's the most subjective caption, but we do have to think about rewarding musical and artistic communication. I don't think it's good for paying customers when an esoteric, uneventful, strange, unexciting show wins. Perhaps it can be balanced out with at least two GE judges (judging just "GE" as you suggested, rather than music GE or visual GE), that way differing opinions can balance each other out a little bit.

Of course, this wouldn't solve all problems.  For example, I believe DCI needs to look at the "box" system again and tweak so that "Box 5" is not as easy to reach in the later parts of the season by the top 5-6 corps.  This might eliminate the need for giving out 10s to best 9.9s and 9.8s already given.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This definately should have been done sooner. They're running out of room at the top.

I firmly believe that less weight needs to be given to General Effect and swung back into the broad performance captions of Music and Visual. It's clear that the GE caption is a confusing one at best for most fans of corps, even knowledgeable ones...look at how many debates have raged over Regiment's low numbers this year, neither Cavaliers nor Cadets winning GE visual in 2000, Cadets not scoring higher in GE in 2001...the list goes on and on.

Another thing that DCI MUST do...publish the sheets online.  Let the fans know what the rules are.  Heck, even the NFL publishes its rule book.  DCI must do the same.  This will remove the "secrecy" that some people feel surround the process.

And, if I may take a page from my old "USDC" pipe dream (My USDC Pipe Dream):

Judges will have to go through seminars, lectures, and evaluations in order to receive DCI status.  They will have to redo this every 3-5 years.  If at any time, a judge is suspected of pre-assigning or favoritism, the judge will be observed closely and asked to back up all of his numbers.  No judge will be allowed to continue judgiung in DCI that does not show fairness and impartiality.  The Judge Executor will monitor closely all of the scores of the USDC season, looking for anomalies and problems.  Any concerns by corps over a particular judge will be made to a Judge Executor, however, a corps may only submit this concern after the season is over. The Judge Executor will be the adjudicator voted by member corps as the judge most likely to excel in honesty and impartiality.

That way, if there are constant problems such as the ones I have heard this year regarding Debbie Torchia, at least we know there is a way to address those concerns.  Why exactly is it so wrong to ask Debbie why she slammed Crown every time she judged them this year?  I don't think it's unfair to ask a judge to back up his or her numbers if the concern is raised.

Also...perhaps judges should have to sign a contract that states they will not look at recaps and instead be allowed to give a fresh number reflective of that night's performances.

And I still believe that the Finals judges should be sequestered two weeks prior to Finals (in other words, the week before Finals Week is the only time they would not be allowed to judge or look at scores).  I have no idea how they would do this however.

I guess I am just sick of "trend" judging.  For example...when was the last time there was a genuine back-and-forth between two or more corps leading into the last few weeks of the season?  Either we have an undefeated corps barreling through everyone (Cavies 2002, Cadets 2000, BD 1994) or we have a corps that overtakes another and never looks back (BD 2003, Cadets 2005, Cavaliers 2001).  It seems like once a corps beats another corps this late in the season...forget it...it's over.  No back and forth anymore, no Corps X tonight and Corps Y tomorrow night and back to Corps X two nights later.

I don't pretend to have all the answers, just tossing stuff out there.

Oh, and hey...if anyone needs a Program Coordinator or just someone to talk to about show ideas, I'm here.  :P  (Or if some Division II or III corps needs a drill writer or brass arranger, I am here too....heh heh.  Gotta support my doctoral studies somehow...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lots of good ideas in here. I don't like the trend judging either. The judges need to be in a vacuum until they have sheets in their hands and see the corps on the field.

[Jeff Ream]

IMO, GE gets too much of the sheet now.

the best solution is similar to what we had before.

field vis 10

ens vis 10

field perc 10

ens perc 10

field brass 10

ens brass 10

ge vis 20

ge music 20

however that leaves the guard out, which is needed.

so the issue is how to get guard in, yet get the individual captions the ensemble numbers they need? Honestly, going w/just ensemble music is good, but the drum guys will complain they need ensemble ( and they do) and IMO, ensemble music in many cases ignores percussion.

[Matthew]

Nevermind. I will contribute later!

Edited August 14, 2005 by ScadesBari

[Jeff Ream]

crap, i forgot to leave points for narration. help?

[In2drums]

And I would somehow try to get 15 points to marching and maneuvering on Nikk's proposal. I miss the crisp look and the mystique it brought to the activity and I would hope we can get back to that.

I agree with you here. It's kinda like in the NBA, when everyone says "they don't call traveling anymore." In the last few years, it seems the DCI judges don't call out on sloppy or inconsistant marching technique.

[manoloblahniksabre]

Yes! Colorguard absolutely does need to be a half ticked caption. I completely agree with this. I think that not enough emphesis is placed on correct technique anymore. The hard thing is...so many guards use different techniques , but there is still universal good/bad technique (like like pitching or dipping tosses and correct body carriage beneath equipment).

While we are on it, if guards are going to dance as much as they do now, I think they should be penalized if they don't use correct technique. This would hopefully eliminate the problem of putting BAD dancers on the field which I see so much of. You can tell someone who has started dance training at age 16 vs. someone who has studied their entire life, with the exception of the rare natually talented dancer.

Auxiliary (10 points). This judge would be on the field and be looking for correct technique in rifles and flags, as well as number of caught tosses versus dropped ones. Performance is the mainstay of this caption. This caption would probably best be done as half a ticked caption, and half a caption for build-up regarding design and demand.

Edited August 14, 2005 by manoloblahniksabre

[JMS0527]

IMO, GE gets too much of the sheet now.

the best solution is similar to what we had before.

field vis 10

ens vis 10

field perc 10

ens perc 10

field brass 10

ens brass 10

ge vis 20

ge music 20

however that leaves the guard out, which is needed.

so the issue is how to get guard in, yet get the individual captions the ensemble numbers they need? Honestly, going w/just ensemble music is good, but the drum guys will complain they need ensemble ( and they do) and IMO, ensemble music in many cases ignores percussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I have a pretty good answer for you, Jeff....

But, every time I post it (granted I haven't posted it very often), no one seems to see it..

[tbobaz]

almost anything is better then what we have today!

[toph34]

IMO, GE gets too much of the sheet now.

the best solution is similar to what we had before.

field vis 10

ens vis 10

field perc 10

ens perc 10

field brass 10

ens brass 10

ge vis 20

ge music 20

however that leaves the guard out, which is needed.

so the issue is how to get guard in, yet get the individual captions the ensemble numbers they need? Honestly, going w/just ensemble music is good, but the drum guys will complain they need ensemble ( and they do) and IMO, ensemble music in many cases ignores percussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Make each GE caption worth 15 points and 10 points for guard. Tics not necessary for guard as that is accounted for in build-up of the Excellence subcaption. However, positioning of the guard judge (original post) should remain in the seats... better for viewing the entire guard and technique errors are as obvious from higher up in terms of pitch, clarity (or lack thereof), body positioning, demand, and toss height.