DCP questions from a rookie?

[rayfallon]

good for you. honest emotion and criticism. very rare here.

hey, I call it like I see it. some of the corps sucked this year, some didn't. sorry If I hurt anyone's feelings. that's why it's a "forum." everyone gets to post and comment.

sometimes music geniuses and those playing on the field and in the corps get a jaded view of what their performances look and sound like. I didn't see a whole lot that was great in 05. just my opinion.

(ok, go ahead and post your snarky comments about how opinions are like <removed-word filter circumventing-BDL>  here. I'm ready for ya) 

I choose to be frank, Frank. got the vector, Victor? over, Unger.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, I don't get it. I never did. RAMD made me nuts, because there was so little actual discussion about drum corps. To my eyes, there were people dressed up in "handles" or whatever you call ficticious names, who spouted the most vitriolic stuff about corps. Almost always personal, too. Not like, "I enjoyed many of the other corps' programs more than yours", but "I call it like I see it. some of the corps sucked, some didn't." I do not love all corps equally. I grew up with Sun and played with them as soon as I came back from Viet Nam. I then taught a bunch of corps and raised my kids and watched them march and play. I use my real name when I post.

How could any of these corps "suck"? Look at the work that goes into it!!! Are they all at the top of the heap? No, but look at how Reading dropped down until their alumni corps was bigger (and played better) and now they are the undisputed kings! There are actual dramas being played out here.

Finally, for "I miss Butch and George." Everyone misses both those guys. Do you think that Sky fans had a monopoly on that? George was the easiest going guy in the history of DC. I guarantee you would never have heard him say someone sucked, unless you were spying on him and taking his words out of context. Butch loved the other corps. He loved the competition. Everyone else made Sky so special. All by themselves, without context, they wouldn't have had half the mystique that they had.

I hated RAMD. I thought most of the regulars were self absorbed little psychos. Once I put out a poll question about where they respondents had performed. I got 92 replies and NO ONE had done a season with a major corps! But they all had opinions about what Sucked about all those corps. If that's what this forum is going to be about, I'll keep my "snarky" opinions to myself. I personally don't believe that this IS a forum to say whatever you feel. I think that's for spray paint and the walls of brick buildings. :(

[Jeff Ream]

Ray,

Wally Ream says hi (my dad). Oh and I replied, and if Westshore wasn't a major corps, we apologize.

the problem as you see it is this...people can't out personal feelings aside, use harsh terms, then call it honesty. I have said many similar things in my reviews, but by using different words, it comes off less harsh.

[Kay]

There is a way to articulate critism and make it constructive. If constructive critisim is given in a proper and tactful way, the person (or group) on the receiving line would be a fool not to take it and run with it if indeed it would make them a better person (group).

However, to come on here and say some corps was "a disaster" is not only inaccurate, but just plain ignorant.

If people wanted/liked to read that sort of Rhedoritc they would have just stayed with that other newsgroup fondly called RAMD.

In addition, reading such comments from someone that does not sign their posts and hides behind a fictious screen name makes such "honest" comments lose their validity.

[TheMoonlightChef]

Hi Ray!

It's impossible to tell who that person is, I've tried to find out.

I NEVER open my mouth and speak for my drum corps unless it's recruiting or cheerleader-esque type posts, but this guy fired me up so bad in that same thread, Poodle actually closed the thread because he could see where it was going.

I apologize to the Caballero Organization for opening my mouth when it's really not place being only a 3 year vet.

But you can see that I was justified.

We call them 'trolls' here and people like that, that have no 'sack' to leave a REAL name after comments like that have no place in this community.

Thank you.

Edited September 18, 2005 by CabsMello03

[JimF-LowBari]

When did you do the poll Ray? And yes, the volume (and sickness) of some of the people there overshadow the good DC conversions that DO go on at RAMD. And as far as I'm concerned even a last place corps has to put in a crap load of time to get that last place show on the field (been there, done that). So I try not to be stupid enough to say a show sucked. I may not like it or disagree with it but something with that amount of time put into it doesn't suck.

[rayfallon]

Jeff - I'm sorry that I made it sound like ALL the respondents were non "major" corps members. For one thing there's a certain degree of snobbery in putting it that way. I myself marched for 10 years with the Oceanside Legionnaries from Oceanside NY, a corps that never had more than 27 horns, and if I had never gone on and done anything else I would have considered the experience meaningful. A portion of the respondents (I counted 92 out of how many I don't remember) gave replies like "I always wanted to march DCI but never had the chance. I was the snare captain in Minot ND HS band and I don't think Cavies drum line played as well as we did, etc. etc." I would be a fool not to include Westshore as a major, as they kicked my ### on several occassions, and I loved the horn line back in the Dorritie, Dave Rohrer, Sylvia days. No offense intended. Say hi to your dad for me. Is he involved with the new alumni?

Laura - I've been with corps when they've won, when they've finished in the middle of the pack, and when they've dropped out of sight. One of the few years I would refer to as a "disaster" was finishing 3rd in DCA, and maybe my favorite year of all times was narrowly missing finals in DCI. The quality of the experience, the friendships, and the corps itself, can't be measured by placements, or even crowd reaction. e.g. 93 Star, who were not at all the fan favorites that year, but were one of the all-time great drum corps. No amount of complaining on DC forums could lessen the importance of that year's Star. BTW, the single best experience is bringing a corps back to the top after it's slipped a little. Hope you get to experience that!

Frank - my unofficial poll was about 3 or 4 years ago. I was puzzled by the anonymity of RAMD. The posts all sounded like they were being written by people who had lived the experience for years and years at a high level, but I couldn't imagine anyone who actually understood the experience being so negative and personally derisive. I just asked for a quick bio from anyone who wanted to write. Don't get me wrong, some of them were fascinating, but I did get the sense that few participants had done a whole bunch in the activity.

It's hard for me to imagine anyone who has spent these 100 degree days out on the practice field turning around and calling a corps a disaster, or even a disappointment. We can all have favorites. It just doesn't make the rest of the show a bunch of crap. Then couching these moronic "reviews" as "telling it like it is" as if it were some sort of hard hitting courageous journalism, turns my stomach.

Lastly, Butch and George were actually friends. I hate to see their names invoked by an anonymous poster, thereby associating their names with that kind of vitriol that I assure you neither would have agreed with. (Butch might actually have punched the guy. George just would have laughed - and waited for his brother to punch the guy).

[Jeff Ream]

Jeff - I'm sorry that I made it sound like ALL the respondents were non "major" corps members.  For one thing there's a certain degree of snobbery in putting it that way.  I myself marched for 10 years with the Oceanside Legionnaries from Oceanside NY, a corps that never had more than 27 horns, and if I had never gone on and done anything else I would have considered the experience meaningful.  A portion of the respondents (I counted 92 out of how many I don't remember) gave replies like "I always wanted to march DCI but never had the chance.  I was the snare captain in Minot ND HS band and I don't think Cavies drum line played as well as we did, etc. etc."  I would be a fool not to include Westshore as a major, as they kicked my ### on several occassions, and I loved the horn line back in the Dorritie, Dave Rohrer, Sylvia days.  No offense intended.  Say hi to your dad for me.  Is he involved with the new alumni?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ray,

just busting your ball....dad and Toomey told me to. Wally is involved w/the corps...he carries my beer :P

come out and play...we need horn #100

[overthehillDM]

Ray,

HOW ARE YOU???

Nice to see your name on the boards!

In regard to this thread...

I totally agree with everything you said.

EVERYONE in drum corps works hard, and none of the corps "suck"!

Your words are very wise, but then, that doesn't surprise me. You were always the "voice of reason", and you taught me a great deal, many, MANY moons ago!

(That '78 horn line was really AMAZING!!!)

I think, rather, I KNOW that you had more than a hand in that!

Often, we don't realize what we've learned until much later in life. Being a teacher, and horn instructor myself, I often find myself tapping into that profound wisdom that you, (and others) bestowed upon us, way back when. Your knowledge, actions, and relaxed, but confident demeanor served many young men, and women quite well, in their youth, and I am proud to have been included among this privileged group.

Thanks for being a great teacher, Ray!

You learned me real well! :P

Jim

PS - Hey...Why don't you come pay us a visit in Bayonne, on September 24th, or October 8th!

I KNOW that there'll be a lot of people there who would love to see you!

Edited September 16, 2005 by overthehillDM

[overthehillDM]

OH YEAH,

BY THE WAY...

WE NEED HORN #100, TOO!!! B)

[rayfallon]

OH YEAH,

BY THE WAY...

WE NEED HORN #100, TOO!!!  B)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jim,

Thanks for all the kind words. I'm trying to set it up to come down and play some weekend when I can get my son Kevin to fly in from SLC and play contra... he was (you may remember) kind of a mascot in those days. He aged out with BD and is now a tuba teacher and High School music teacher out in Utah. I think we'd have a ###### playing together.

Do you remember the rehearsal at Jersey City Armory where we were trying to work out Sabre Dance and we ran it with just Simpson and me playing contra against 48 horns? I had so much fun with that.

That's kind of what I'm trying to explain to this guy on the post here: you can't belittle the work that goes into this, because if you're not immersed in it, and I mean EVERYONE's program, you just don't get it. There's so much going on and so many opportunities to have fun.

Think of just the Bridgemen stories that You could tell... (I think the statute of limitations has run out on most of the crimes committed back then!)

I follow the corps via the internet, regularly. I still tend to think of all of you guys as my kids, although even the ones from '84 are almost in their 40s now.

It's been wild. Thanks for the note

-Ray

ps if you get just 1/10,000th of the people who love that corps out to a rehearsal, getting to 100 horns will be no problem.