DCI corps Regressing?

[ssorrell]

I know, but that's what I have a problem with. You're making sweeping generalizations about the activity, based upon your own personal value judgments.

Like you, that's all I can do...offer my perspective based on my experiences.

If we're talking crowd response, it might have been more raucous in the 70's, but show styles have changed to a more musical, symphonic approach, and you wouldn't stand and holler at a symphony, even if you thought it was the greatest thing ever.

That is one of the problems, IMHO. Things are too symphonic and esoteric across the board. Too many shows don't command the audience stand up and wildly cheer during the show the way they used to. Don't get me wrong...I love a good symphony more than I do a good latin jazz number, but I don't go to drum corps shows to see a symphony...except for Phantom. In their case, I expect it.

instead of recognizing this as a generational thing, or recognizing it as a difference in taste, you chose to bemoan the status quo. ... But when you disparage the state of the activity today, you can bet that I'm going to stand up for it.

Don't get me wrong, Matt...I enjoy drum corps today. I don't appreciate what it offers me as much as what I witnessed as a fan back in 1978 or 1986. Sure...it's a difference in tastes between you and me or between your generation and my generation, but I offer my personal observation that in general, drum corps is just not as emotionally appealing to the masses as it used to be. I was there in the 70s and 80s, so I do have the experiences that allow me to compare the two. Mind you, I'm not just comparing the shows based on my own personal attractions to them, I'm comparing audience reactions to those shows. And it's only my opinion and my perspective...I don't speak for any other fan out there.

Edited October 27, 2005 by ssorrell

[DaKman]

Better check again. Attendance was much higher in the '80s, it's not even close.

this is correct...numbers dont lie

[ssorrell]

Better check again. Attendance was much higher in the '80s, it's not even close.

I was going to point that out, but I knew someone else would.

However, in Matt's defense, DCI didn't have these big focus shows two or three times a year with the entire Div 1 competing against each other. We didn't have shows liek San Antonio or Indianapolis, which now draws huge crowds and probably takes away from the finals attendance. No...we might not have 40K+ in attendance at finals, but I would guess than if you added all the major shows, they are comparable.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

I was going to point that out, but I knew someone else would.

However, in Matt's defense, DCI didn't have these big focus shows two or three times a year with the entire Div 1 competing against each other. We didn't have shows liek San Antonio or Indianapolis, which now draws huge crowds and probably takes away from the finals attendance. No...we might not have 40K+ in attendance at finals, but I would guess than if you added all the major shows, they are comparable.

We had Whitewater. Everybody was there. Then we had the Preview of Champions. Everybody was there. Finals was never the only place to see it all.

[ssorrell]

We had Whitewater. Everybody was there. Then we had the Preview of Champions. Everybody was there. Finals was never the only place to see it all.

We had Whitewater...that is true. But it NEVER drew the crowds that SanAntonio or Indy draw. And, beginning in 1985 it did not include the entire top 12 from the previous year, much less the entire Div 1 membership. And the Preview didn't start until the 90s.

Finals might not have been the only place to see everyone most of the years in the 80s, but those other shows like Midwest were not marketed like the regionals are today. We didn't have a different major regional in two or three locations across the nation drawing fans that might otherwise travel to championship week.

[MikeD]

We had Whitewater. Everybody was there. Then we had the Preview of Champions. Everybody was there. Finals was never the only place to see it all.

In my day, the vast majority of our shows were performed on local HS fields...and in NJ back then the crowds at those shows were counted in the hundreds, not thousands. We had, of course, the occasional big venue show at VFW Nationals, or slightly smaller venues like the Dream, World Open, etc...but the meat and potatoes of our schedule took place on HS fields. The guy with the temporary lights and the generator truck chugging away at the end of the field made a nice piece of change.

The small class 'B' shows (Garden State Circuit, e.g.) had even sparser crowds much of the time (not all, just a lot). We had shows in parking lots, for goodness sakes (Havre' de Grace, MD comes to mind) where anyone who wandered by was the entire audience.

I think trying to compare the total audience then (whenever the "then" was you are looking at) and now is an exercise in futility. Just MHO.

Mike

[Matt_S]

That is one of the problems, IMHO. Things are too symphonic and esoteric across the board. Too many shows don't command the audience stand up and wildly cheer during the show the way they used to. Don't get me wrong...I love a good symphony more than I do a good latin jazz number, but I don't go to drum corps shows to see a symphony...except for Phantom. In their case, I expect it.

It seems that this paragraph would be enough to explain your observations regarding mass appeal. Crowds don't stand up and cheer as much, but then we agree that shows aren't necessarily designed to elicit that specific response. Is that a problem? In your eyes it is, in my eyes it is not. I enjoy a show that makes me think, like a SCV '03 or a Cavaliers '02, at least as much if not more than a stand-up-and-cheer program like Madison '95. Heh, I don't think we're ever going to make any more headway than that.

Edited October 28, 2005 by Maedhros

[deftguy]

Come on, Matt. I'm talking in generalizations here, not speaking to individual corps. Maybe it's just another generation gap coming through, but I don't think it's any secret that the mass appeal of corps in the 70s and 80s was much greater than it has been throughout the 90s and 00s. I'm sure that all corps' staffs try to achieve a balance between their push for success and their desire to entertain, but all too often crowds now days are entertained by the overwhelming degree of technical prowess that corps display instead of being entertained by a show that they can relate to on an emotional level (although there are some corps that do seem to understand the latter concept and are attempting to keep that delicate balance from leaning too hard on the side of demand/technique...ala Crown).

I'm not saying that corps today aren't entertaining, but what is considered "entertaining" today is just not what it used to be. I know, I know...save me the speach about yesteryear's shows being boring by today's standards, but sorry...I'll take a 1978 or 1980 finals lineup anyday over most any year since 1990. Like I said...I'm sure it's just another generation gap rearing its ugly head. I won't condemn todays corps nor their designers as they are doing a great job, but I would sure love to see a shift in design so that the music comes first, the audience is the target, and everything else comes a distant second.

You have got to be me twin brudda

[LancerFi]

You have got to be me twin brudda

And we're now triplets - two boys and a gal.....I'm the youngest!!! LOLOL

[HornlineDiva]

It seems that this paragraph would be enough to explain your observations regarding mass appeal. Crowds don't stand up and cheer as much, but then we agree that shows aren't necessarily designed to elicit that specific response. Is that a problem? In your eyes it is, in my eyes it is not. I enjoy a show that makes me think, like a SCV '03 or a Cavaliers '02, at least as much if not more than a stand-up-and-cheer program like SCV '95.Heh, I don't think we're ever going to make any more headway than that.

Are you inside my brain?

I agree 100%. Why should we wildly cheer at every show? I love to get on my feet, the way I did for Phantom '03, but I think there is room for all kinds of shows in DCI. I like to go to a regional and see Phantom doing something insanely powerful and traditional, so I can leap to my feet, and then seeing Cadets totally breaking the mold, so I can think about what it meant on the drive home. Why is esoteric and symphonic bad? My favorite shows are shows that make me think, and shows with a plot. Note that, while this is my personal preference, I am not criticizing shows of yesteryear. If you like retro, super. The fact that DCI isn't catering to the retro whims of a group of people on an online message board does not mean it's regressing.

This is an impossible question to answer, because everyone has a different definition of progress. Some think going straight back to the 70's is progress, and some consider that regressing.

I have a question. Every other day you see someone on DCP wishing someone would do a retro show, or start a retro corps, etc.... I'm not going to criticize, because even though I support drum corps in all it's future incarnations, I'll probably miss drum corps of 2005 some day as well. But anyway.... if, say, 2-7 or Bridgemen were zapped into 2006 at your average DCI DI show, would it get everyone on their feet? Not just a crowd full of alums, like at finals, but a mixed show, with lots of different types of people... maybe like San Antonio...... or even the Normal, IL show, which is all bandos. Would it impress the music majors and professors, with its harsh tone quality? Would the drill be as impressive next to the Cavaliers and SCV? Would they be playing oldies, or music recognizable to both the young AND the old? Ya'll talk about how corps don't play recognizable music anymore, but I haven't heard of most of those older hits that corps used to play, and I'm willing to bet most people my age and younger haven't either. I think the general concensus among the alums here is that if we brought back retro corps, there would be more fan-friendly shows. But I think what they really mean is, "alumni friendly shows"..... I am not so sure that retro would impress your average high school sophomore that is obsessed with the cavaliers. I'm not saying it wouldn't be entertaining, or powerful, or even that I wouldn't enjoy it. But I don't think it would illicit the same response that you have when you see that style of show. That's just my opinion, though. Thoughts?