We Have Met the Enemy - And They is Us?

[audiodb]

Look at the top corps now...they've been at the top of the game for 20+ years...EACH of them. They've proven consistently that they can produce corps that push towards the top each and every year with very few exceptions.

Now, look at D2 and D3 corps...this is not meant as a slam against them, but some of those corps have stayed stagnant for the same 20+ years.

Your own post illuminates the issue. How come a stable "top corps" is "consistent", while a stable II/III corps is "stagnant"?

[audiodb]

This summer I sold souvies ... this corps I sold for couldn't pass the merchandise out fast enough, can you say over $20,000 in sales at San Antonio. SCV on the other hand, of course had the die hard loyalist, but their booth was a ghost town. This being an off year for SCV affected souvie sales. What it will also affect will be the quality of the member that auditions for them this year. Case in point - look at Madison around 2002. It took about 3 years for them to really recover from that bad stretch of 2000, 2001, and 2002. Madison souvies you couldn’t give away in 2002. In 1995, they couldn’t sell them fast enough.

Winners sell. Which points out an interesting side effect of DCI's formation....

Prior to 1972, there was no single "championship" for junior corps. There were several major contests (AL, VFW, World Open, U.S. Open, Dream, CYO Nationals, etc.) that each staked a claim to that status. Once DCI got going, their championship quickly became "the one". The other championship shows lost their significance. Where we once had six different "winners" and 30 different "finalists", the DCI era condensed it down to one winner and 12 finalists.

There is a serious self-esteem problem among corps that didn't crack the DCI barrier. I see it in fan interest for old recordings. In the 1960s, people seek recordings of corps from all levels of competition. Any one of the 60 or more corps that competed in "open-class" in a given year will draw attention. Recordings of corresponding quality corps from post-1972 are largely ignored, even by their own alumni. The stigma of failure sticks to every DCI-era corps outside of the top-25, and hangs like a storm cloud over the 13-25 corps.

There were many excellent corps in that category, especially in the mid-1970s. It's a shame fans and alumni don't hold those corps in the higher esteem they deserve.

[elphaba01]

Dear Elphie,

Is it so surprising that we disagree again?

I'm not talking about kids then, I'm talking about kids now.. specifically the large number of them whom I know personally. I don't go around asking them these exact questions.. but the conversations do come up.. I ask how they're doing.. if they need anything on tour.. if they need help finding sponsors.. and inevitably, they will relate how much fun/how tired/how frustrated they are.. that's where I get my information -- from "the horse's mouth" so to speak.

As for the "winning" mentality.. I do not see where this is a new development. Plenty of ring chasers existed in the past, plenty of them exist now but I don't think there are as many "glory hounds" as you think.

If a kid decides at 13 or 14 that it's his or her dream to march Blue Devils because he or she thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread.. and then that kid auditions and doesn't make it.. isn't it somewhat disloyal for them to go elsewhere?

Is it impossible for a kid who has NEVER marched to have loyalty to "their corps" -- the one they chose? Lots of kids these days choose to pursue other things with their summers, thinking they can go on and audition for their "choice corps" when they're older or have more experience playing.. maybe just for one year.. in some cases, that's all they have time or money for and they cherish the opportunity like a pair of.. well.. pretty red shoes.. you know how that goes.. They won't stop until they get their chance.. and won't settle for less in their eyes. That, IMO, is loyalty.. perhaps even equal loyalty to joining a small corps because it's close and staying through your age out because you love the people.

And isn't "WINNING" the driving force behind sticking it out in one corps -- even if they aren't top 12, Div I -- because you strive to make it better.. and drive that corps closer to "WINNING?"

I just fail to see the difference. I think the culture of "WINNING" has existed since time began.. and drum corps in all its incarnations has perpetuated that merely by being what it is..

So I must ask, how is THEN truly any different than NOW?

As always, I remain your devoted sister,

Nessa

WWE

Hello Nessa:

"Kids now, and kids then":

Yes, the "Winning Desire" was ALWAYS there, has always been there, in every class, in every corps. HOWEVER, the "Corps Jumping" that is rampant in the era of DCI, in this century of "21", was not NEARLY so bad "Back Then".

Loyalty, to a "Parent Unit" my little sister, (As both of us well know) was MUCH stronger "Back Then", than it is now. That is the great difference.

"Ring Chasing" is rampant, comparable to "Free Agency" in professional sports. Sadly, all too many of those talented musicians/marchers/performers "Cut" from a "Contender" unit do not go elsewhere to "Build" a "Hometown" unit.

Always great to hear from you, even if it is to disagree.

Stay in touch little sister.

Defy Gravity.

Elphie

[ssorrell]

Your own post illuminates the issue. How come a stable "top corps" is "consistent", while a stable II/III corps is "stagnant"?

Consistently stagnant?

[JimF-LowBari]

Wonder how much has to do with the costs of joining a Jr corps for a year. Maybe some potential members think that $$$$ (4 dollar signs) is worth joining a Div I corps but $$$ (3 dollar signs) isn't worth it to join DivII/III.

[JimF-LowBari]

There is a serious self-esteem problem among corps that didn't crack the DCI barrier. I see it in fan interest for old recordings. In the 1960s, people seek recordings of corps from all levels of competition. Any one of the 60 or more corps that competed in "open-class" in a given year will draw attention. Recordings of corresponding quality corps from post-1972 are largely ignored, even by their own alumni. The stigma of failure sticks to every DCI-era corps outside of the top-25, and hangs like a storm cloud over the 13-25 corps.

There were many excellent corps in that category, especially in the mid-1970s. It's a shame fans and alumni don't hold those corps in the higher esteem they deserve.

As a person interested in old Senior recordings, this is just flippin' amazing.

Also seems that the ability to find recordings of non finalist corps from late 70s to 90s is pretty bad. From what I can tell only the finalists were recorded at DCI/DCA and anything else is pretty much "home made".

[Jeff Ream]

thats it in anutshell Jim.

DCI could release the 13-25/13-21 stuff....they did record it. they just choose not to sell it.

DCA however didnt record it

[JimF-LowBari]

And if it wasn't for computers and digital equipment we wouldn't be able to get the "lesser" corps recordings at all today. Between old albums on eBay (which I don't buy) and the digital re-recordings on CD (bought from various places) some history is coming back to life.

<Writing reminded to self to email audiodb after the New Year about other RCA recordings and the 4 corps from 1976 not released.> :)

[audiodb]

DCI could release the 13-25/13-21 stuff....they did record it. they just choose not to sell it.

DCA however didnt record it

No - DCA prelims were recorded. Unfortunately, some of those recordings were thrown away.

As for DCI, didn't they say they were working on releasing some of the 13-25 recordings via Season Pass in the future? I think that will happen. But I'm not so optimistic about the corps 26-onward.

[JimF-LowBari]

No - DCA prelims were recorded. Unfortunately, some of those recordings were thrown away.

Knowing I might hate the answer, what years were pitched and which still are stashed somewhere?

Heh Hijacking my own thead here. :P