Senior Corps

[EMStar85]

However you will notice that nearly every single "junior" corps does not use that word at all. To them they are simply a drum and bugle corps. And to me that is reason enough for the "seniors" to drop that term as well. Maybe it's even time to drop the "all-age" moniker.

Amen, Amen, Amen

As an extreme newbie to the "all age" world (outside of being a fan for several years), I am of the firm opinion that the distinction is unnecessary. To the general public, drum and bugle corps is hard enough to explain; why waste time explaining the age brackets?

We are drum and bugle corps...if a distinction must be made for some reason, we're either DCA, DCI, or non-affiliated. Easy as that. :)

[krazyivan]

i don't really think older members are being pushed out at all. i know since i joined mon valley back in 2000 that just to get people on the field we took who ever we could. when i came in along with part of the brass line and a coupple of drummers and the drum major from my highschool along with 2 flute players we were just trying to get out on the field.

but i think alot of it has to do with the younger kids maby can't get out to a camp for a jr corp because they can't get a ride for what ever reason or they can't afford it. $200-$400 is alot easier to get than over $1,000. or even they don't have the skills or don't feel they have the skills but they are able to make it in the semi local all age corp that they can get to on the weekends. so they get to build the skills till they can make it in a jr corp. or even if they can't or decide to stick with the all age corp they can still get that experiance. but they can work do family things and what ever else they want to, and then show up on a saturday for corp. but alot of those 14-15 year old kids grow up to become 20, 21, 22 year old college kids who are now (as a friend of mine called me) "grizzled grey haired old vets" who can work for that next semester of college and not have to worry alot about how much they are putting out for corp amd if it will effect them during their next semester.and so like i have done they choose to just stick with the all age corp because they are too old to goto one of the jr. or they have an attachment to the group that they feel it is the right group for them.

i personaly am one of those kids who at 15 joined(in mycase my band director informed me i had just joined a drum and bugle corp becauise it was in my hometown. and i being the 15 year old highschool sophomore who didn't knwo much about drum corp went "umm ok".)and am not a 21 year old "grizzled grey haired old vet" college student that decided mon valley was the right group for me and i can imagine being with another corp. and we still have alot of highschool kids but some of those highschool kids are now becoming college kids.

[Jeff Ream]

'older" folks arent being squeezed out.

if you take the 1990 Westshore drumline, throw out 4 people, you had an average age of 19.

the reasons they were there?

cost

training to go to DCI

parental decision that DCI wasnt practical

friends marching

band staff teaching there

that was 15 years ago. We were a rarity.

however, now it's more the norm, yet a lot of the same reasons apply. We viewed it as a training center and a retirement home...many of those guys who were kids in 90 were experienced vets in the 95/96 lines that won.

[cin4057]

Here's my take on the subject...

Once upon a time there were Junior Corps and then there were Senior Corps.

Junior corps was for kids 15-21

Senior Corps was for ages 18- mature adults

Catholic schools and VFW's and American legions supported jr. corps.

When that all fell apart and DCA and DCI were formed the number of jr. corps thruout the U.S. decreased,drasticly. There were no jr. corps for the kids to join.

I think the numbers went from somewhere around 470 jr. corps in the U.S. to 70.

So some parents who were in a sr. corps who's numbers weren't good, decided to change the age limit.

LOL This kind of blew up in us seniors faces.

[Jeff Ream]

i dont view it as blowing up in any faces.

quite honestly, if you look at DCA the last 10-15 years, without the youth movement, we'd be hurting. And, really, looking at it, the "kids" are more prevalent in the Eastern corps, those corps that get blasted for holding the west/midwest/south etc down, not all the new faces showing up to DCA every year.

[bill]

Here's my take on the subject...

Once upon a time there were Junior Corps and then there were Senior Corps.

Junior corps was for kids 15-21

Senior Corps was for ages 18- mature adults

Catholic schools and VFW's and American legions supported jr. corps.

When that all fell apart and DCA and DCI were formed the number of jr. corps thruout the U.S. decreased,drasticly. There were no jr. corps for the kids to join.

I think the numbers went from somewhere around 470 jr. corps in the U.S. to 70.

So some parents who were in a sr. corps who's numbers weren't good, decided to change the age limit.

LOL This kind of blew up in us seniors faces.

You have it somewhat reversed. First there were (for the lack of a better term for the times) senior corps, then junior division corps. The drum corps activity basically was started by service organizations (VFW/Legion/Amvets, etc) when individual Posts started drum corps for their members. So this isn't a what came first, (the chicken or the egg), senior corps (Post type corps) were instrumental in the being of the activity.

[Donny Drum Corps]

It has affected the quality of the corps in as much as the kids are more physically fit to do todays visual requirements on a football field. Alumni corps have replaced in a way the "senior" corps.

It has also changed the way that corps run, and the corps that cannot make that change as easily are the corps that are finding now that it is inevitable to survive. The amount of drinking in most corps has been curtailed to a level that the recent years corps would be surprised. Bus rides are Nothing like they used to be in the 70', 80's and even 90's. LOL

In fact some corps have 2 seperated buses for the kids and adults, in order to assure parents that their students will not partake in what DCA used to be known for.

Donny

[Mike_B]

As a teenager. "what DCA used to be known for" was half the reason I got involved, besides love of corps. We had a blast back then. Besides normal practices, every Friday night the drum line and guard (with a few select horn players included) would get together and party. In the summer, it would be on the beach with a bonfire. Next day get on the bus. Too cool. Junior, senior, all-age, as long as it's a good time.

Edited December 15, 2005 by Mike_B

[cin4057]

Here is an observation of mine on sr. corps vs. jr. corps.

I was born to a drum corps family. Alot of you old timers know me and who my father was.

Col. Truman W. Crawford.

Dad was directing the Air Force D&B in Washington D.C. When it disbanded he could have been reasigned to an air force d&b inColorado but he had an offer to go out to Chicago Ill. to teach the Chicago Royal Airs.

It was at this time in his life that his name had really grown in the drum corps field. He was arranging for and teaching corps all over the U.S but his primary corps were the Royal Airs.

I was really becoming aware of what drum corps was at this time and I could see how strictly this corps was run and the amount of disipline these kids had. This group was tight!

We're talking 1963-1967.

At this time there were jr. corps everywhere. So there was lots of compitition. So in order to win, disiplin and perfection had to be achieved.

The tic system left no room for mistakes. Everyones uniform was inspected. Not one spot or speck of lint was allowed.

Kids were use to being instructed with such harsh disiplin. We're talking corps paddlings. For mistakes. Corperal punnishment. Were talking catholic school punnishment. So these kids had incentive to be the best. LOL

Back in these times it was drum corps nuts like my Dad who were instructing these jr. corps. With only their years of experiance to guide them. These were for the most part not University trained men and women but just plain drum corps nuts.

Now adays no self respecting corps will allow any of their instructors to not be collage educated.

I asked an old friend of mine. One of my Dads best trained men, "why he wasn't instructing a corps." He looked at me appalled! He said it would never be allowed!~ He's only been playing since he was 15 and had some remarkable teachers.~ But he hasn't got a degree.

It drives me mad when I see a corps not utilise it's resources.They'ed rather have someone with a degree than someone who's had years of practical experiance. ~Don't get me started!~ LOL

But to get back on track

I went from observing junior corps in the mid west .To the Balto. MD Yankee Rebels Sr. corps.

What an eye opener that was. Or shoud I say a jaw dropper.

I'll never forget the first time I attended a rehearsal.

Yes there was not the kind of disiplin I had seen in Chicago.

These guys were sitting in a half circle drinking and smoking. Hurling fowl insults and language at each other. It was not a place for impressionable young teens. For them to be in a senior corps.

~Come on folks! We're talking 1967! These people were all adults.~

A saw Dad step out in front of these guys and I remember thinking ~this kind of behavior is not gonna fly with my Dad! You guys are in big trouble!~He eventually turned these guys around and made champions of them. He gave them the disiplin they needed to make it so.

I'm only saying what I observed. No insult is intended. We're talking about my drum corps family here.

Juniors who have been known to insult these adults who might feel that they are above sr's have a right to be proud of their achievments. But they must also be taught to respect seniors for thier love of the drum corps activity.

We are all, every one of us, in this for our love of the activity. Scores and titles are secondary.

One of these days you kids are gonna be in our shoes.~mhmm~

As of this time we have seniors who are still involved, even against doctors recomendations to stop.

People such as myself . I have torn tendons in both shoulders and arms. But it's my love for drum corps that keeps me going.

How can anyone feel contempt for that?

[Imperial]

As we continue in our efforts to resurrect the Imperials, we find that "All Age" is the best term for a corps aspiring to be a DCA competitor. Our percussion section is populated by mostly teenagers, while the average age of our hornline is 28 years and the colorgaurd is a mix of teens and people in their 20's 30's 40's.

"Senior" is a term used out of habit and it definately does not describe the realities of today. I personally wish this forum would change its categories too to "All age"

Also, let me say that I firmly believe that the future of community based drum corps and its resurgence lies with all age, family style, community drum corps that are more plugged into their particular locale and the general public within it.

In addition, we are having lots of fun just practicing, performing and improving without the weight of a big tour, camp housing and big bills to worry about.

Outside of the euphoria and elation operators of big touring corps feel during their corps performances, I'm not sure how much fun these people are having on the many offseason days and during the countless hours of fundraising they must endure.

John Stark Director _ Imperials

Edited December 15, 2005 by Imperial