ambassadorhorn Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 And are there any good sites that list the results of Junior shows over the years? I'm currently researching when certain Sr corps have competed but running into a brick wall on the Jr side for some reason. corpsreps.com has a great score archive of both Junior and Senior scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 corpsreps.com has a great score archive of both Junior and Senior scores. D'OH.... Keep forgetting about the search by year option..... Thanks... Quit looking at the pictures and start reading Jimbo..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Nope. You are not correct here either. I'm not even counting the all aged corps - or the high school affiliates. I'm talking junior drum & bugle corps. This number HAS increased and all it would take to see it is a little bit of due diligance and FAIR research. Now, it IS true though that the "all age" activity is sky rocketing. If we counted them, we would have a REAL impressive number. To say that "drum corpsis dying" when we have had one of the quickest increase of corps in the JUST last 5 years since the 70s is uterlly ludicrous and that's the misconception that needs to be demolished IMO. Ok, I'm not a physics major or anything so I can't explain entropy. But everything has an end to it. Remember when we had a top 25. Now it's 17 and barely that. What 4 corps didn;t make it. And yes I'll admit there are more corps this year.....but...I believe it's a bubble that will burst. Think about what it takes to start a TOURING corps. Horns at thousands of dollars and gas at $2.50 a gallon. It's not worth the money any longer. While there will always be people that will pay $3000 and up to march for a summer but theres more for kids to do now-a-days. Why is the activity (DCI Model) dying; Cost- Maybe 30% of the families in America can afford to march Cost- To start a corps and run one on a volunteer basis is getting harder and harder Competition- High School bands are doing things corps are and giving kids the education and challenge that corps are at a tenth the price (maybe more maybe less depending where you live) Outside interest- Kids have more things to do during the summer and working is one of them. And so many other things What can be done to help the DCI model of the activity. Follow the DCA model and have weekend shows and maybe a week or two tour before championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 (edited) I don't think this is a problem with DCI. But one thing I am wondering, prior to DCI, weren't there 2 championships during the year? I think one was VFW, but wasn't there another championship crowned during the year? And did corps compete in just one or the other, or did some corps perform in both sets of championships? And was one considered the "major championship"? So in 1972, were there 3 championships during the season? And what year were the last VFW championships? And the other organization folded when?Just wondering if these were the major factors for so many corps going under in the 70's. Big two sponsors prior to DCA/DCI were VFW and American Legion. For the Jr side a lot of (mainly Catholic) churches had corps as a youth activity. In fact one of the reasons for creation of DCA and later DCI was problems with AL/VFW style of judging which was based more on military bearing than entertainment value. A thread about why so many corps going under in the 60s/70s pops up about every 18 months or so on DCP or RAMD. In a nutshell the biggies (IMO) were decline of AL/VFW Posts and churches (and everything else) in the cities which cut the budgets of many sponsors. That is, if the Posts or churches themselves didn't just close up totally. Also when gas went from 29 cents a gallon to $1.00/gallon that nailed a lot of corps running on shoestring budgets. Especially corps who were located in the middle of no where and had their bus bills explode. Edited March 28, 2006 by JimF-xWSMBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn8o Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 (edited) Ok, I'm not a physics major or anything so I can't explain entropy. But everything has an end to it. Remember when we had a top 25. Now it's 17 and barely that. What 4 corps didn;t make it. WRONG AGAIN. VERY wrong. They have mearly divided the top 25 into quarters and semis and added a show and....with 24 corps in quarter finals last year - and ALL of which were division I corps - which has not happened since the EALY 80s! THAT'S A RECORD, my friend. Let's elaborate on this now. In the late 80s and mid 90s, top 25 was made up not only of division I (then Open Class) corps but also division II and III (then A and A-60 corps). This of course was an effort to FILL the top 25 because they didn't have ENOUGH division I/open class corps to FILL all of the top 25 BACK THEN - back in the day (so to speak). In the 90s. It got worse. MOST of the corps from about 15th place on down were all made up of division II and III corps. For a while, there were no more than about 14 - 15 total division I corps. TODAY??? The quarter finals (THE TOP 24) is COMPLETELY FULL and made up ONLY of Division I corps. This has actually not been the case in over 25 years. So, YES!!! There IS actually MORE than enough corps for a "top 25" and if they chose to STILL allow division II and III to participate in quarters, they would have a VERY HARD CONTEST TO make it and would probably have quite a few VERY FINE CORPS not make it in to quarter finals. For now, they are sticking to 24 in quarters. Big deal. It still proves your point to not be correct. So, TRY AGAIN! Better yet, DON'T because the kids in this activity do not need to read this kind of negativity. Edited March 28, 2006 by torn8o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn8o Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 (edited) And yes I'll admit there are more corps this year.....but...I believe it's a bubble that will burst. Think about what it takes to start a TOURING corps. Horns at thousands of dollars and gas at $2.50 a gallon. It's not worth the money any longer. While there will always be people that will pay $3000 and up to march for a summer but theres more for kids to do now-a-days. Why is the activity (DCI Model) dying; Cost- Maybe 30% of the families in America can afford to march Cost- To start a corps and run one on a volunteer basis is getting harder and harder Competition- High School bands are doing things corps are and giving kids the education and challenge that corps are at a tenth the price (maybe more maybe less depending where you live) Outside interest- Kids have more things to do during the summer and working is one of them. And so many other things What can be done to help the DCI model of the activity. Follow the DCA model and have weekend shows and maybe a week or two tour before championships. That last sentence is the first thing you've said right yet about this issue and I agree with it. However, you make it sound as though that idea in and of itself is a mark of "death". I see it differently as did former Madison director Scott Stewart in 1997 when he tried to get the rules to not only ALLOW certain corps to not tour as much and still have competitive success but REQUIRE corps who don't meet certain criteria (particularly financially) to TOUR LESS. This of course was an effort to not only allow more corps to join the game but KEEP more corps and stop all of the "folding". See, I think that "less touring" is not the "death" of the activity but the BRIGHTER FUTURE of the activity because in having corps tour less, MORE will stay in and it then WON'T be that "bursted bubble" as your VERY NEGATIVE doomsdayish comment stated. Touring less is what is going to keep the activity ALIVE - NOT a sign of it's pending "death". Boy, you are NEGATIVE. If I were a DCI kid (who didn't know any better) reading your posts on this thread, my morale would be shot. Is this what you are TRYING to do to the kids reading this? If so... <**> BTW, I remember people saying in 1988 (as well as every later year I marched) that the activity "was dying". It's now 2006 and there are actually more division I/open class corps than there were back then. :) That last sentence is for the KIDS. :) Edited March 28, 2006 by torn8o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn8o Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 (edited) (double) sorry. Edited March 28, 2006 by torn8o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn8o Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 (edited) Blackstar, if this is comming across as a personal attack - I apologize. I just know how I would feel if I were a current kid in DCI reading your comments about "drum corps dying". Here the excited DCI kid is building dreams for his or her future in drum corps and then some old drum corps vet comes along and says "there is no future" (if I may paraphrase). That can do more damage to such a kid than you probably realize and it's just not right. Edited March 28, 2006 by torn8o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dckid80 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 OK torn80, since you seem to be leading the charge on the resurgence. You reference a number of 100 corps several times earlier in this thread. Name them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn8o Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 OK torn80, since you seem to be leading the charge on the resurgence.You reference a number of 100 corps several times earlier in this thread. Name them... OK, give me a chance to go through all of the hidden smaller corps that are around that many people don't know about as well as create a list file that I can copy and paste. Might take a day or so. Be patient with me. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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