1978 legacy

[xrifle]

So to me, Madison's show is more a sign of the times than a flawed choice in programming. After all, if Madison was flawed, then so was pretty much everyone else; Santa Clara, Phantom and Blue Devils are the only corps I can recall from that period who were making a concerted effort to tie everything together stylistically, rather than having an obvious off-the-line, drum solo, concert, production number and closer, all of which needed to be completely contrasting numbers in order to work.

Perhaps SCV's, PR's, and BD's efforts to "stylize" their programs is one of the reasons they all placed in the top three. If so, that would make Madison's program choice "flawed". Tieing things together stylistically from a show design standpoint must have been valued as it continued and seems to be alive and well today. At any rate, I loved that guard's performance. Much tighter than their '77 performance.

[Rocketman]

True, but that was a flaw with most shows that year.

So to me, Madison's show is more a sign of the times than a flawed choice in programming.

Byline:

I do have to agree with you on that point. However, in '77, as I recall it, Madison did have a more content agreeable program. Perhaps they felt that show should have done better because of the thematic elements tying together, and when they didn't get the recognition they thought they should have, perhaps they made a conscience decision NOT to tie the '78 show together. There were a few corps in '77 that attempted to carry a thematic style (SCV, PR, BMen) just to name a few. (Left BD out due to the Rocky ending. Nothing personal, just didn't flow with the first 2/3rd's of the show)

What I'd like to do is have people reading this figure out how Madisons show could have been improved (from concert out) so that the flow was better! Might be interesting to hear some of the ideas. Heck, even I have to think about it.

Rocketman - Theme me this

ampssuck

[Rocketman]

At any rate, I loved that guard's performance. Much tighter than their '77 performance.

Don't make me re-watch '77!

Rocketman - Rewind

ampssuck

[Scerpella]

True, but that was a flaw with most shows that year. Others have been praising Blue Stars' program that year, but look at their musical choices: "Malaga," "Suite for Jazz Flute and Piano," "Hatikvah" (Israeli National Anthem), "Hava Nagila," selections from "The Planets," "Backwoods Sideman," "Come in from the Rain" and "Espana." Huh?

Even Crossmen, whose show I love, had an interesting repertoire in '78: "Jazz Rhapsody," "Something," "It's Gonna Be a Great Day" (from "Funny Lady"), "Let's Hear It For Me" (from "Funny Lady"), "Tico Tico" and "Russian Christmas Music." Yeah, all that makes perfect sense together!

So to me, Madison's show is more a sign of the times than a flawed choice in programming. After all, if Madison was flawed, then so was pretty much everyone else; Santa Clara, Phantom and Blue Devils are the only corps I can recall from that period who were making a concerted effort to tie everything together stylistically, rather than having an obvious off-the-line, drum solo, concert, production number and closer, all of which needed to be completely contrasting numbers in order to work. That's just how shows were still being designed at that point. The idea was to have extreme contrasts in music selection, not necessarily a thematic thread running through everything. As an overarching stylistic trend that every corps tried to follow, that came later.

I agree Sue, theme shows were the exception back then rather than the rule. But we all had the sneaking suspicion BeeGees and Star Wars was simply too Pop for DCI. I agree on Crossmen, their command of Jazz was great. Due to the laws of Synchronicity I now march in Kilties with a couple of PRs from 1978 and have a 78 Crossmen writing the drum book, and had a 78 Blue Devil as our visual program head.

My Phantom friends agree that their problem back then was always coming out of the gate so strong. As for the Devils Alum, the first thing I said to him upon learning his pedigree was that no way should they have beat us in 78! I'm still griping about that! As I said before, they definitely had the hardest musical program, but it wasnt until 79 that they mastered it. He agreed and wasnt broken up about it, after all he has two DCI rings to show for his time in Devils!

[Scerpella]

:lolhit: nyuk nyuk ... (just the trombonium line, though, right Vince?)

Tromboniums made their debut and hasty exit in 1979!

[vferrera]

Byline:

I do have to agree with you on that point. However, in '77, as I recall it, Madison did have a more content agreeable program. Perhaps they felt that show should have done better because of the thematic elements tying together, and when they didn't get the recognition they thought they should have, perhaps they made a conscience decision NOT to tie the '78 show together. There were a few corps in '77 that attempted to carry a thematic style (SCV, PR, BMen) just to name a few. (Left BD out due to the Rocky ending. Nothing personal, just didn't flow with the first 2/3rd's of the show)

What I'd like to do is have people reading this figure out how Madisons show could have been improved (from concert out) so that the flow was better! Might be interesting to hear some of the ideas. Heck, even I have to think about it.

Rocketman - Theme me this

ampssuck

1978 was the year Jim Elvord returned to Madison as brass caption head. I'm sure he had a big say in the choice of music. He had spent 77 with the Cavaliers who also did a themed show (Porgy and Bess), and he picked most of the music for that show.

Trivia: Ray Baumgardt did the arrangement of "Ain't Necessarily So" for 77 Cavaliers.

So, in 78 I think the decisions were not so much theme v. no-theme or any reaction to what happened in 77. I think the motivation was more to capitalize on the popularity of Star Wars and Saturday Night Fever.

Trivia: Madison's concert number in 78 was not decided until April or May camp. For much of the winter, it had been something called "Hi-dee-ho". That bombed, so we switched to God Bless at the 11th hour.

Trivia: After first tour in 78, it was clear that there were major problems with the second half of the show, so we did an extended camp and changed much of the drill and music. Sort of a mini-version of what they did in 76.

My opinion was that we should have replaced Star Wars with Rhapsody in Blue. Would have given the show a nice jazz continuity throughout. But I was a 16 year-old second soprano so I didn't get to make programming decisions.

[Scerpella]

Byline:

I do have to agree with you on that point. However, in '77, as I recall it, Madison did have a more content agreeable program. Perhaps they felt that show should have done better because of the thematic elements tying together, and when they didn't get the recognition they thought they should have, perhaps they made a conscience decision NOT to tie the '78 show together. There were a few corps in '77 that attempted to carry a thematic style (SCV, PR, BMen) just to name a few. (Left BD out due to the Rocky ending. Nothing personal, just didn't flow with the first 2/3rd's of the show)

What I'd like to do is have people reading this figure out how Madisons show could have been improved (from concert out) so that the flow was better! Might be interesting to hear some of the ideas. Heck, even I have to think about it.

Rocketman - Theme me this

ampssuck

77 was definitely a year that could have been. Problem was we lost a buttload of horn players due to the stress of the 76 campaign. The show was a DCI winner, it was that we didnt have the horses to play it. What specifically was needed was about 4 more top leads. And dont forget that the horn caption head was 76 ageout Chris Tomsa. Not that he didnt do a great job but there are not many horn trophies that have come from lines taught by 22 year olds.

[vferrera]

77 was definitely a year that could have been. Problem was we lost a buttload of horn players due to the stress of the 76 campaign. The show was a DCI winner, it was that we didnt have the horses to play it. What specifically was needed was about 4 more top leads. And dont forget that the horn caption head was 76 ageout Chris Tomsa. Not that he didnt do a great job but there are not many horn trophies that have come from lines taught by 22 year olds.

Tomsa really came into his own as an instructor in 1980-82. Those were the years he teamed up with Metzger to produce some of the finest hornlines in Scouts history, IMO. In 83, he left to work with Pride of Cincinnati ($$$). Too bad.

[mobrien]

Listening now SCV sounds like they struggled with their program, Blue Devils intonation was pretty bad (altho they had the hardest show, 79 was when they took that show and mastered it) Phantom sounded more like the 4th or 5th place corps. Madison's show was only middling hard, but it was by far the most exciting of the top six and the hornline was very solid. (Thank God for that drumline which btw got screwed)

As a general rule, LaCrosse's horn sound was a bit ahead of its time in the mid-late 70s. I remember they used to get called "band-like" from some of the old school types, and they couldn't understand why anyone would use it as a perjorative. Times change.

I'm making note of today. For the first time in a long time, I agree with EVERY point in Dan's post... :P SCV's strength was clearly percussion and visual (the hornline never sounded particularly good, even when the parts were watered down mid-season). BD's show was a little awkward, PR's show was about as subtle and nuanced as a 2x4 upside the head. BD and PR both improved immeasurably the next year. I'd take Madison now inspite of the BeeGees closer.

As I think of it, dang, what a CRAPPY year for closers from everyone. ampssuck

Edited April 14, 2006 by mobrien

[Rocketman]

PR's show was about as subtle and nuanced as a 2x4 upside the head.

And Don't You Forget It! :)

Rocketman - A little louder please

ampssuck

Edited April 14, 2006 by Rocketman