1978 legacy

[JimF-LowBari]

Interesting reading the last few posts as I listened to the 1978 recording about a year ago and was the only chance I ever had to really hear the shows. Even had a thread on the differences between 1978 and today and caught Hades from some folks for being "overly fond" of what was done in late 70s.

Anyway have to agree on Blue Stars and their music. I remember them as being good but was never very excited about what they did on the field. After listening to 78 I just shoke my head and wondered what I missed the first time.

Then I replayed Backwoods Sideman about 3 more times in a row.

[Rocketman]

Asked who he thought took it that night, Pete Emmon's answer was "Madison"! B)

If only! :P

Phantom sounded more like the 4th or 5th place corps. Madison's show was only middling hard, but it was by far the most exciting of the top six and the hornline was very solid. (Thank God for that drumline which btw got screwed)

I decided to resist commenting out of ignorance. However, I have just finished watching the top 4 and here is my impression/opinions: (without sounding like a "homer")

SCV - The first 3rd of their visual program was a lot of stop and play moments and nothing really "special." It seemed (to me) the drill was confined between the 35-40 yard lines and they did have their share of spacing issues (including marching a hole). How they tied for top guard is a mystery. They did nothing (except the dance at the end) and did not even use rifles! The brass score was a gift including a 9.8 in GE Brass. Should have been more like 9.4. Considerable amount of playing beyond the instruments capabilities (over blowing). Overall, a poor brass performance that should not only have cost them the title but a top 3 finish as well The best part of the drill was the closer.

Regiment - Intonation issue toward the end of the opener, drill got very simplistic after the first drum solo, however, execution (intervals/distances) were good throughout. Slight phasing at the beginnning of the closer. Considerably better brass performance than SCV and M&M execution seemed better too. Guard, well, they got hosed.

BD - Best drill of the top 4, interval and distance issues aside, very good field coverage. Blend issues in brass and uncharacteristic overblowing and intonation problems pretty much up to concert and parts of the closer (over hyped?). 3rd year drum solo probably didn't help their cause any (I liked it).

Madison - Good field coverage and decent execution. My problem with Madison was more about programming. To me (opinion) the show lacked continuity (Malaguena, Bless the Beast and the Children, Star Wars, How Deep is Your Love?) Just didn't do it for me. However, they should have finished in the top 3. Minor over blowing issues and, personally, I could not watch their rifle line.

So, now you can all flame away, I'm wearing my flame retardant undies!

Rocketman - FIRE!

ampssuck

Edited April 14, 2006 by Rocketman

[GGarrett]

I decided to resist commenting out of ignorance. However, I have just finished watching the top 4 and here is my impression/opinions: (without sounding like a "homer")

SCV - The first 3rd of their visual program was a lot of stop and play moments and nothing really "special." It seemed (to me) the drill was confined between the 35-40 yard lines and they did have their share of spacing issues (including marching a hole). How they tied for top guard is a mystery. They did nothing (except the dance at the end) and did not even use rifles! The brass score was a gift including a 9.8 in GE Brass. Should have been more like 9.4. Considerable amount of playing beyond the instruments capabilities (over blowing). Overall, a poor brass performance that should not only have cost them the title but a top 3 finish as well The best part of the drill was the closer.

Regiment - Intonation issue toward the end of the opener, drill got very simplistic after the first drum solo, however, execution (intervals/distances) were good throughout. Slight phasing at the beginnning of the closer. Considerably better brass performance than SCV and M&M execution seemed better too. Guard, well, they got hosed.

BD - Best drill of the top 4, interval and distance issues aside, very good field coverage. Blend issues in brass and uncharacteristic overblowing and intonation problems pretty much up to concert and parts of the closer (over hyped?). 3rd year drum solo probably didn't help their cause any (I liked it).

Madison - Good field coverage and decent execution. My problem with Madison was more about programming. To me (opinion) the show lacked continuity (Malaguena, Bless the Beast and the Children, Star Wars, How Deep is Your Love?) Just didn't do it for me. However, they should have finished in the top 3. Minor over blowing issues and, personally, I could not watch their rifle line.

So, now you can all flame away, I'm wearing my flame retardant undies!

Rocketman - FIRE!

ampssuck

I could NEVER flame on someone who expresses opinion in such an eloquent way. For cryin' out loud, the idea of shooting down someone who simply states what he/she thinks/feels/see's/hears/etc. is abhorrent, to me anyway.

You say tomato, I say tomato...you say potato, I potato... you know, that whole thing.

For the sake of friendly "Ebert & Roepert" debate... I didn't see and hear things the same exact way you did, even though we heard the same music and saw the same shows. You know what I mean? I know you do...

[vferrera]

Madison - Good field coverage and decent execution. My problem with Madison was more about programming. To me (opinion) the show lacked continuity (Malaguena, Bless the Beast and the Children, Star Wars, How Deep is Your Love?) Just didn't do it for me. However, they should have finished in the top 3. Minor over blowing issues and, personally, I could not watch their rifle line.

As someone who marched that show, I have to agree with you. I thought the second half lacked sophistication. Performance wise, it was an up-and-down season for us, but things seemed to be coming together at the end. If the season had been a week longer, I think we would have had a monster.

BTW, our second number was "God Bless the Child"; no beasts were involved.

p.s. from your remarks, I take it you think the order should have been PR, BD, Madison, SCV?

Edited April 14, 2006 by vferrera

[GGarrett]

BTW, our second number was "God Bless the Child"; no beasts were involved.

:lolhit: nyuk nyuk ... (just the trombonium line, though, right Vince?)

[vferrera]

:lolhit: nyuk nyuk ... (just the trombonium line, though, right Vince?)

<sgt schultz voice> I know Nuzzink! </sgt shultz voice>

[Rocketman]

As someone who marched that show, I have to agree with you. I thought the second half lacked sophistication. Performance wise, it was an up-and-down season for us, but things seemed to be coming together at the end. If the season had been a week longer, I think we would have had a monster.

BTW, our second number was "God Bless the Child"; no beasts were involved.

p.s. from your remarks, I take it you think the order should have been PR, BD, Madison, SCV?

Thanks for correcting the title. As far as who should have won? I'll address that gradually. However, Madison was hosed, even if you didn't finish in the top 3, your score should have been within tenths of the top 3. The only placement I agree with you on is where you ranked SCV.

Again, (without trying to sound bias) that "performance" was not up to the usual SCV standards of excellance. For Lloyd Pesola (GE Brass - 9.8 SCV and 10 - for BD!) and Shirley Whitcomb (GE Visual 10 - SCV), to score those performances the way they did, in my mind, calls into question their ability to accurately judge a corps performance. Throw in Gus Barbaro hosing Madison (9.6 GE Perc) and perhaps none of them were fit to be on the slate that evening. But, it's all ancient history now, and nothing we say here will change it.

Had the second half of your show been as good as the first half, with the same level of execution, a top 2 finish would not have been out of the question. However, with a better brass performance, BD would have taken it. I guess what I'm saying is, SCV had too many problems that evening for the result to turn out the way it did. (In my opinion)

As far as the Regiment winning, a better visual package would have gone a long way toward making that a reality but, all other things considered, an appropriate spread in brass over SCV would also have done the trick.

Rocketman - Old School Rules! And ampssuck

Edited April 14, 2006 by Rocketman

[vferrera]

Thanks for correcting the title. As far as who should have won? I'll address that gradually. However, Madison was hosed, even if you didn't finish in the top 3, your score should have been within tenths of the top 3. The only placement I agree with you on is where you ranked SCV.

Again, (without trying to sound bias) that "performance" was not up to the usual SCV standards of excellance. For Lloyd Pesola (GE Brass - 9.8 SCV and 10 - for BD!) and Shirley Whitcomb (GE Visual 10 - SCV), to score those performances the way they did, in my mind, calls into question their ability to accurately judge a corps performance. Throw in Gus Barbaro hosing Madison (9.6 GE Perc) and perhaps none of them were fit to be on the slate that evening. But, it's all ancient history now, and nothing we say here will change it.

Had the second half of your show been as good as the first half, with the same level of execution, a top 2 finish would not have been out of the question. However, with a better brass performance, BD would have taken it. I guess what I'm saying is, SCV had too many problems that evening for the result to turn out the way it did. (In my opinion)

As far as the Regiment winning, a better visual package would have gone a long way toward making that a reality but, all other things considered, an appropriate spread in brass over SCV would also have done the trick.

Rocketman - Old School Rules! And ampssuck

I think it really was a toss-up between PR and SCV. PR had the execution but the judges went more with their hearts than their eyes and ears.

In any case, it's cool that after all these years, a member of a rival corps can say nice things about our performance. Thanks for that (seriously).

[Rocketman]

I think it really was a toss-up between PR and SCV. PR had the execution but the judges went more with their hearts than their eyes and ears.

In any case, it's cool that after all these years, a member of a rival corps can say nice things about our performance. Thanks for that (seriously).

You could always count on Madison to crank one out!

To me the great thing about '78 was that, it seemed, once we all went East, it was a crap shoot. There was no favorite. I still maintain that, as close as the top 3 were at finals, the top 5 should have been within a point with Spirit not far behind.

I had no problem getting beat by any corps that performed better than we. However, I contend that evening, one of the better "performing" corps (and there were a few) did not win. Now, obviously, viewing this from the DVD's (as bad as they were) and with a slight but restrained bias, I may not be as objective as I should be.

As with you, I lived that show. Because of a comparatively poor performance at prelims (I thought for sure we were looking at 4th place after prelims), finals was such an improvement that you would not have found a single staff or marching member that would not have indicated it was a victorious performance. Guess we should have been judging too :P

Rocketman - We have No Winner

ampssuck

Edited April 14, 2006 by Rocketman

[byline]

My problem with Madison was more about programming. To me (opinion) the show lacked continuity (Malaguena, God Bless the Child, Star Wars, How Deep is Your Love?)

True, but that was a flaw with most shows that year. Others have been praising Blue Stars' program that year, but look at their musical choices: "Malaga," "Suite for Jazz Flute and Piano," "Hatikvah" (Israeli National Anthem), "Hava Nagila," selections from "The Planets," "Backwoods Sideman," "Come in from the Rain" and "Espana." Huh?

Even Crossmen, whose show I love, had an interesting repertoire in '78: "Jazz Rhapsody," "Something," "It's Gonna Be a Great Day" (from "Funny Lady"), "Let's Hear It For Me" (from "Funny Lady"), "Tico Tico" and "Russian Christmas Music." Yeah, all that makes perfect sense together!

So to me, Madison's show is more a sign of the times than a flawed choice in programming. After all, if Madison was flawed, then so was pretty much everyone else; Santa Clara, Phantom and Blue Devils are the only corps I can recall from that period who were making a concerted effort to tie everything together stylistically, rather than having an obvious off-the-line, drum solo, concert, production number and closer, all of which needed to be completely contrasting numbers in order to work. That's just how shows were still being designed at that point. The idea was to have extreme contrasts in music selection, not necessarily a thematic thread running through everything. As an overarching stylistic trend that every corps tried to follow, that came later.

Edited April 14, 2006 by byline